Guess I won't be towing with full H2O

[Hit_the_Rhod]

If the fresh water tank is BEHIND the axle on your trailer, you will actually INCREASE the tongue weight if you empty the fresh water tank.

If it is IN FRONT of the axle, you will decrease the tongue weight.

You also need to consider where the grey and black tanks are, as you may not be able to dump them before leaving your site unless you are near a dump station . . . and you said you will be dry camping a lot . . . . Good luck and you've already taken the first important step, when you weighed the RV. Forewarned is Forearmed!

Just keep it up, figure out what you really need to carry, and figure the weight and balance into the mix. Not too difficult, pilots do it before every flight . . . or at least they SHOULD be doing it!

[Mordecai]

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

If the fresh water tank is BEHIND the axle on your trailer, you will actually INCREASE the tongue weight if you empty the fresh water tank.

If it is IN FRONT of the axle, you will decrease the tongue weight.

You also need to consider where the grey and black tanks are, as you may not be able to dump them before leaving your site unless you are near a dump station . . . and you said you will be dry camping a lot . . . . Good luck and you've already taken the first important step, when you weighed the RV. Forewarned is Forearmed!

Just keep it up, figure out what you really need to carry, and figure the weight and balance into the mix. Not too difficult, pilots do it before every flight . . . or at least they SHOULD be doing it!

The fresh tank on the 20FQ is way forward and the black and grey appear to be over or just in front of the axle so all the liquids are biased forward. Weight and Balance was never my strong suit in ground school or in actual flying but I must have been adequate 'cause I'm still here.

You're right, it's good I weighed the thing or I know we would be toodling down the road next week 300 lbs over my rear axle rating.

[Randy the sly old fox]

You said that you weighed it without the WD bars hooked up. So you should compare both of the trucks axle wts with and without the trailer. Technically this is all about moments of torque acting around a fulcrum. In this case the trailer is putting a torque moment on the rear axle that is equal to its weight X the distance from the hitch to the axle. To figure out how much of the tongue wt is on the front axle you need to take the amount of loss in wt and divide it by the wheelbase of the truck that will tell you how much of the tongue wt is on the front axles. You can also do the same math to figure out how much wt it will take on the back bumper to lighten the tongue - multiply the wt x distance between the bumper and the center of the trailer axles and divide that number by the distance from the axle center to the tongue. It will really take lots of wt to make any difference.

The main idea of a WD hitch is to apply opposite torque to the hitch and get the front end wt back closer to unloaded. While making the truck and trailer both level. With some WD bars they also recommend that they are also parallel to the ground and not bent upwards toward the frame. These bars will also put a small amount of wt back on the TT axles - again relative to the moment arm between them and the rear axle center.

I suspect that your rig was heavier than the est 4700 lbs when it was built ORV designed the unit to have a 10% dry tongue wt Which is on the lighter side - they probably did this to allow for the fact that the water tank was forward of the axles. Average hitch wt is in the 10-15% range for TTs.

This sort of begs the question as to how much is on the TT axles? could it also be overloaded? Did you get a wt for them?

Water wt - 480lbs
LPG - 60lbs
Batteries - 82lbs
Cubby - 100lbs
Bedroom storage - 50lbs
dry tongue - 425 (probably higher)
TOTAL 1197 lbs

This plus the axle wts better not be over 7000 lbs

[Mordecai]

Originally Posted by Randy the sly old fox

I suspect that your rig was heavier than the est 4700 lbs when it was built ORV designed the unit to have a 10% dry tongue wt Which is on the lighter side - they probably did this to allow for the fact that the water tank was forward of the axles. Average hitch wt is in the 10-15% range for TTs.

This sort of begs the question as to how much is on the TT axles? could it also be overloaded? Did you get a wt for them?

Water wt - 480lbs
LPG - 60lbs
Batteries - 82lbs
Cubby - 100lbs
Bedroom storage - 50lbs
dry tongue - 425 (probably higher)
TOTAL 1197 lbs

This plus the axle wts better not be over 7000 lbs

I suspect the dry weight is quite a bit heavier. The CCC stickers on the trailer say not to exceed 1400lbs cargo. Take that from the MGVW rating of 6995 leaves 5595lbs.
The trailer axle weight with the water load was 5360. Your weight assumptions above are supported by the scales weights.

[Cumminsfan]

Went thru the same thing with a SOB and an F150 with Max Tow and 1857 lbs for CCC. All loaded up I was at 4000 on the rear axle with a RAWR of 4050. Towed that way for 2.5 years. Solved the problem with a 2500 CTD.
Nobody said RV'ing is cheap.

[Mordecai]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Went thru the same thing with a SOB and an F150 with Max Tow and 1857 lbs for CCC. All loaded up I was at 4000 on the rear axle with a RAWR of 4050. Towed that way for 2.5 years. Solved the problem with a 2500 CTD.
Nobody said RV'ing is cheap.

Boy, ain't that the truth. I think I'll be completely happy with this rig once I get the WD dialed in and the weights and distribution nailed down. I really like this trailer and this truck so I'm willing to live with traveling long distances with less water in the tank. If not I'll borrow your Cummins for the big trips

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by Mordecai

... I really like this trailer and this truck so I'm willing to live with traveling long distances with less water in the tank...

Reading this thread with great interest and have pretty much decided that I'm just going to load the truck and trailer and *then* put water in the tank. I'm still going back and forth between planning to stop and fill or getting jugs to store ~30gal in the rear of the trailer. I'm simply not doing 4 kids in a crew cab truck...

[rotozuk]

Interesting about the tongue weight on this trailer. I have the same basic truck with a 25RDS, but my tank is behind the axle. We looked at a few of the shorter ORV units and found they had higher tongue weights than the 25.

If you have not adjusted the WDH yet, I would start there. You may well be able to tame the rear axle load concern. Dealers basically just bolt the hitches on, they do not attempt to tune them. Mine came out of the dealer service bay with the nose high.

[Randy the sly old fox]

I noticed that in your photos. They set me up nose low then tried to adjust it with the WD bars. Made for a twitcy drive home. Fine tuned myself by going up a notch on the hitch. Now it towed great.

[60sumtin]

When I picked up my trailer it rode fairly level but after loading it it was nose down a bit. All I had to do was tilt the head down a bit to make the corrections. Now everything is level again. Unless one loads the trailer with all your belongings before it leaves the dealership it could very well need some tuning later. They have no way of knowing how much cargo you'll actually be carrying or how it will sit when loaded.

[Mordecai]

Good info. Thanks to all. Made some hitch adjustments today and am confident that I'll get this rig figured out. I know there is a sweet spot/range especially in regards to water weight and how we pack for short vs long trips. If it was super easy it wouldn't be as much fun.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by Mordecai

Boy, ain't that the truth. I think I'll be completely happy with this rig once I get the WD dialed in and the weights and distribution nailed down. I really like this trailer and this truck so I'm willing to live with traveling long distances with less water in the tank. If not I'll borrow your Cummins for the big trips

LOL, you don't want to do that. It's addictive.

[Mordecai]

Originally Posted by shane_the_ee

Reading this thread with great interest and have pretty much decided that I'm just going to load the truck and trailer and *then* put water in the tank. I'm still going back and forth between planning to stop and fill or getting jugs to store ~30gal in the rear of the trailer. I'm simply not doing 4 kids in a crew cab truck...

Kudos to you and your cohort for getting the kids out on the road and the great outdoors. We are empty nesters (sort of) and enjoy watching other's youngsters and their antics when we are camping. We used to carry some cubes full of water in the back of the truck with our previous trailer, but I may just be more mindful of water sources where we camp. Water is just so dang heavy. Too bad there isn't a dehydrated version

[60sumtin]

LOL Dehydrated water. Just add water. Should work.