Hitch height Creekside 23RKS

[archer75]

Add on the weight of propane, 2 batteries and the weight of the equalizer to the tongue weight and you're around 1050lbs on the tongue before you ever load the trailer.
We add a good deal of weight to the front of the trailer such as clothes and bedding. Tons of gear in the pass through. It adds up very quickly.

[Papa_Jim]

Originally Posted by Red_5

It is a bit frustrating these trailers are sold as 1/2 ton towable and I seem to be right at the edge with Max Tow package 1/2 ton.

I find it very frustrating.

Jim

[archer75]

Marketing. Never trust marketing.

[Red_5]

Originally Posted by archer75

Marketing. Never trust marketing.

My truck could almost be considered a 5/8 ton truck and I'm still on the edge with payload. I need to get my setup on the scales to see for sure. Since neither a new truck nor a new trailer are in the cards, I'll just have to watch how we load the trailer.

[Papa_Jim]

Originally Posted by Red_5

My truck could almost be considered a 5/8 ton truck and I'm still on the edge with payload. I need to get my setup on the scales to see for sure. Since neither a new truck nor a new trailer are in the cards, I'll just have to watch how we load the trailer.

We're in the same boat. Our son has a Heavy Duty 3/4 ton truck to pull his big 5th wheel. It pulls the 5th wheel OK, but it absolutely sucks as a daily driver. My wife won't drive it.

My wife and I decided we wanted to stay with 1/2 ton truck for daily driver, and find a small trailer that our 1/2 ton would pull. There's some good choices out there that pull real nice behind your everyday half ton. I had to insist that we needed a four season trailer. I focused my efforts on finding the best built trailer I could find that was 1/2 ton towable. (By best built, I mean the best sealed and insulated. I was surprised how many trailers out there have exposed tanks and plumbing!) I guess all that extra insulation weighs a ton or two.

There's no doubt that our little trailer is very well built. However I think it's built a little too well for the 1/2 ton market. I think it needs to be built on a lighter frame with a lower hitch.

Now we're moving in to the trailer, and there's no storage. It's common to see a sheet of plywood covering over where a drawer could be. Or a drawer that's 12" deep in a hole that 28" deep. I guess they're trying to force us to keep our little bit of added weight down.

I guess we'll get it to all work out somehow.

Jim

[keymastr]

Well, you bought a darn good trailer but the fact is that trailers with the tounge mounted under the frame are not as strong. I have seen a bunch of them over the years that are sagging and bent. Also with the way 1/2 ton trucks sag the hitch can drag the ground real easy.

With the coil springs I am not sure what kind of over loads or helper springs are available. Maybe nothing but air bags. That would help take some sag out.

[Papa_Jim]

Well, I basically agree with you, to the extent that A frames that bend have been improperly built! I have built a few car hauling trailers and utility trailers and I know that if you build the A frame right, passing under and connecting with two frame members, and connecting to the main frame, that A frame is not going to move or bend.

I also agree with you about 1/2 tons sagging. I find it interesting that our previous truck was a 2009 Dodge Dakota. We complained because when it was empty it rode like a tank! At maximum load it only lowered about 2". It had very stiff, strong springs. It could carry more weight than our current truck. I'm sure it wasn't rated for it, but it could carry it.

I've run the numbers, and talked to the dealer, and searched the RAM website. If I'm careful, I can make this truck work. The first problem I have is the rear coil springs are very, very soft. They will carry rated load, but only when they are compressed to probably 3/4 of total length. That's fine for load carrying, but it's not fine for trailer towing.

So, I will do what I have to do to get the truck sitting level when towing our trailer.

The only problem I still have it that 32" hitch height. It totally wrecks our intended design. I still have to work on that.

Jim

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by Red_5

I'll raise my hitch up another hole and see how it does. I know it will result in a dent in my tailgate but overall might be better for the truck.

I also need to get my truck and trailer over to the scales to see what everything really weighs. 1200 pound tongue weight seems awfully high but I guess that is 15% of 8,000. I've been mostly towing with empty water tanks and I keep heavy things out of the bed of the truck so with light family members and 1800 payload I think I'm still under.

It is a bit frustrating these trailers are sold as 1/2 ton towable and I seem to be right at the edge with Max Tow package 1/2 ton.

The scales are a big help when towing close to your truck's limits.

We towed our Timber Ridge for several years and 25K miles with an F150 Ecoboost. Our payload was over 2000# as it was only a 4x2, and we never exceeded that, but with a 1200# tongue weight we quickly wore out the hitch receiver and exceed the rear GAWR by 2-3 hundred pounds. And I was hesitant to add any further weight, like extra batteries, to the trailer tongue or into the truck bed.

When we finally decided to upgrade to a 4x4 (really necessary with such a heavy trailer when off-pavement camping), the upgrade to a heavier duty truck was an easy decision. I also wanted a truck with better engine braking.

I do miss the half-ton though, even with a stiffened suspension, it's ride was better and quieter. And it was a lot easier to get into being closer to the ground. But there's no doubt that the RAM 2500 CTD is a better tow truck for our trailer.

[archer75]

Originally Posted by Papa_Jim

We're in the same boat. Our son has a Heavy Duty 3/4 ton truck to pull his big 5th wheel. It pulls the 5th wheel OK, but it absolutely sucks as a daily driver. My wife won't drive it.

I use my ram 2500 as a daily driver and it certainly doesn't suck. You just have to get used to a larger vehicle.
I had the same initial reaction going from a midsize truck to a half ton. And then when I test drove the 3/4 ton it felt huge but by the time I got it home it felt normal.
I drive the kids to school. Go to work. Shopping. Restaurants. The usual stuff without issue. And the Ram 2500's use coils in the rear so it has a nice ride.
Once you get used to it, it just feels normal. This is a short bed mind you. A long bed would require additional parking considerations.

[motcrew12]

We researched trailers for months before we decided on the ORV 23RKS. We specifically looked for trailers we could tow behind a half ton Ram. After proper loading we pull at 65mph and get 10-13 mpg. The tongue weight never excedes 1000# and total weight scales 7200# without water. So just in response half tons can pull ORV trailers despite being "heavy". We are using a Reese Pro Pride model 4200 series hitch and we tow with a very slight nose down attitude. No sway and plenty of control...

[archer75]

Anything can pull anything. That's not really the point. You risk damage to hitch, frame, axles and suspension components. And you may have great control. Until you don't. They have these ratings for a reason.

[Red_5]

Originally Posted by Papa_Jim

I also agree with you about 1/2 tons sagging. I find it interesting that our previous truck was a 2009 Dodge Dakota. We complained because when it was empty it rode like a tank! At maximum load it only lowered about 2". It had very stiff, strong springs. It could carry more weight than our current truck. I'm sure it wasn't rated for it, but it could carry it.

I've run the numbers, and talked to the dealer, and searched the RAM website. If I'm careful, I can make this truck work. The first problem I have is the rear coil springs are very, very soft. They will carry rated load, but only when they are compressed to probably 3/4 of total length. That's fine for load carrying, but it's not fine for trailer towing.

Jim

My previous tow vehicle was a 2008 Chrysler Aspen which had a gross payload of over 1300 pounds. It was better than many of the Ram EcoDs I was looking at.

Originally Posted by motcrew12

We researched trailers for months before we decided on the ORV 23RKS. We specifically looked for trailers we could tow behind a half ton Ram. After proper loading we pull at 65mph and get 10-13 mpg. The tongue weight never excedes 1000# and total weight scales 7200# without water. So just in response half tons can pull ORV trailers despite being "heavy". We are using a Reese Pro Pride model 4200 series hitch and we tow with a very slight nose down attitude. No sway and plenty of control...

I'm guessing that since you bought a 23RKS there will usually only be 2 of you camping. Is your truck a crew cab or extended cab? 2 or or 4 wheel drive? What level of equipment? All these things effect the payload of a truck. Part of why I didn't buy a Ram 1500 was because of the relatively low payload rating especially on their higher trim level crew cabs.
My GMC tows fine too, we just got back from a trip up to OR which included over 2100 towing miles. My concern being so close on payload is mostly about wearing out the truck early or the increasing the chance of something breaking. My frustration comes from thinking that with the Max Tow package, 11,700 pound tow rating, I had plenty of headroom on capacities that in reality isn't there. I'll just have to be more careful how we load.

[keymastr]

When they talk about heavy tow ratings in commercials they almost always show a large boat. That is because boat trailers only need a 7% tongue weight to tow properly and they have a more streamlined shape so they don't have as much wind resistance.

Usually about 75% of max tow is where you start to lose confidence in the vehicle being able to control the tow. If you are still completely comfortable at 100 % of capacity then you may not be paying attention to what the truck is telling you.

[Papa_Jim]

Well, I've worked on things a little and here's where I'm at. Initially when I hooked the trailer to the hitch ball, the rear of the truck dropped like a stone. The rear coil springs are ridiculously weak. That made it very difficult to set up the WD.

I bought and installed the 1000 lb air bags that fit inside the rear coil springs. Then I discovered that when I hook the trailer to the hitch ball, the rear of the truck only drops 3"; it doesn't matter if the air bags have 5 lb of air or 30 lb of air, the truck only drops 3". We learned when we're towing the trailer that the air bags have to be adjusted to have about 10 lb of air in them for comfort. Any more than that the ride is too rough.

Anyway, having the air bags made it easy to set up the WD. It is now adjusted so the front end of the truck remains at the same height when the trailer is hooked up, and the height of the back axle remains at the initial 3" drop, which means the truck sits level.

So, with the WD properly adjusted (I think!) and 10 lb of air in the air bags, the rig handles and rides really nice.

Next issue. When hooked up, the trailer now is about 5" low at the front end. That's using this from equalizer:

2 shank. 18 long x 3 max drop or 7 max rise : Equal-i-zer Hitch Store

I've been looking for a taller extension, not been having much luck. Does anyone know where I can find one?

Jim