Community Forums

Cumminsfan · 08-20-2016, 06:37 PM

Hate to say it but IMO you need some 1400lbs bars. Using air bags does noting to restore the front to it's original weight. If you have some stuff added in the truck then yes the bags can be used to accommodate that weight. But using bags instead of a WD is not right.
And NO a WD is not used because of wind resistance. It's used to transfer weight from the hitch to the front of the truck and to the TT axles. It's also needed because most all receivers aren't rated for more than 500-600lbs with out a WDH. They have two ratings. One without WD and one with.
Example. https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...leid=201419070

Papa_Jim · 08-20-2016, 09:46 PM

Well, today is what happened.

I leveled the trailer. Then I set the ball height on the truck 1" higher than the trailer hitch. I set the air bags to 10 psi.

Then I lowered the trailer hitch onto the ball. The rear springs dropped 3" at the axle. The front springs raised 1" at the axle.

I put 6 washers in the Equalizer. I used the trailer jack to raise the truck/trailer until I could hook up the bars, then I let it back down. Now the front springs were exactly the truck empty ride height at the axle. The rear springs were still 3" down at the axle.

I tried 7 washers in the Equalizer. the front springs were 1/2" lower than the truck empty ride height at the axle. The rear springs were still 3" down at the axle. I didn't think I should push the front end down lower than the empty truck, so I went back to 6 washers.

The Equalizer had no trouble putting the front springs at the same ride height as the empty truck. The back springs were down 3", and I couldn't raise it with the Equalizer. This put the trailer down 2" at the front.

The end result. A three hour drive. I've never driven anything so scary! It felt like the trailer was trying to push the truck all over the road. The ride was smooth enough, but the handling was absolutely plain scary! That's never happened before. The handling has always been great, the ride not always so good.

The truck really does look like it's seriously overloaded. The Equalizer won't pick the back end up, even though it has no difficulty pushing the front end down.

So, for tomorrow, would it be OK to add another washer to the Equalizer, knowing that the front end of the truck will be pushed down lower than the empty truck? Also, I'm wondering, would it be OK to raise the ball another couple of inches on the receiver to get the trailer closer to level, even though the back of the truck is going to be 3" low?

I'm really confused by all this.

If I inflate the rear air bags to 35 psi, the back of the truck sits tall and strong, but the ride at the front end of the truck is unbelievably terrible.

With the air bags basically disabled, why can the Equalizer easily lower the front end of the truck, and is not able to lift the rear end of the truck? Are the front springs too weak?
Thanks.
Jim

keymastr · 08-20-2016, 10:43 PM

Get it level by raising the ball then restore the front axle to unloaded height. Have you done a 3 pass weigh so you know what percentage of tongue weight you have? I think that is where I would focus after getting it to sit level. Without weights we still are guessing. Maybe you have more weight in the truck than you think. How much does your canopy weigh?

archer75 · 08-20-2016, 11:23 PM

Never ever ever compress the front more than the unloaded amount. It's very unsafe!
You aren't getting the results you want from the equalizer because you have the wrong equalizer. You need the 1400lb setup. Nothing to be confused by. I've been there. Made a ton of adjustments and nothing was working the way it needed to. Bought the 1400lb equalizer and got it dialed in perfectly.

Just go get the right hitch. Better yet, get the right truck and hitch. Anything else is just wasting time and is unsafe. I know you don't want to hear it but that's what it all boils down to.

1bigmess · 08-20-2016, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa_Jim

The truck really does look like it's seriously overloaded.
Jim

Well, maybe it is. SCALE! Weigh it! Or maybe you don't want to know.

I'd want to know.

brulaz · 08-21-2016, 06:03 AM

Like others are saying never load the front more than normal.

IMHO if your existing bars can return the front end to its original height, then you don't need anything heavier for now. THe WD bars are primarily to lower the front, not raise the rear.

Maybe you should try letting the front rise a little with the trailer. Dunno about RAM, but Ford and others suggest using the bars to reduce the front end lift by only 50%, not 100%.

If you don't like the sag at the rear, increase the pressure in your air bags. That will change the tilt of your WD bars so you will have to re-adjust your WDH (add more washers I think? ) to get the same front end response (50-100% lift reduction).

But the more pressure in the bags, the stiffer the ride. I think that's just how they work. Have you tried an intermediate pressure? Maybe 20psi? Others have suggested replacing the rear coils with some stronger coils instead. Perhaps that would be better, I dunno.

And remember, every time you change the air pressure to level the truck, or change the wdh head height on the shank, you change the tilt of the WD bars and the amount of WD, so you'll need to re-adjust. Confusing and tedious ... yes.

Papa_Jim · 08-21-2016, 06:31 AM

Thanks everybody. You've helped me keep things sorted in my mind at least.

I agree it's time to get some weights. I'll have to arrange to do that.

I hear you about the size of the Equalizer. I am puzzled that this 1200 lb Equalizer effortlessly adjusts the front end of this truck to proper ride height. In fact, it can effortlessly shove the front end of the truck down way too low! Hmmmmmm.

I'm thinking that the rear springs in this truck are at the root of most of this trouble. The ride height trouble was solved when I added the air bags. What the air bags did though, was to roughen the ride up front when pulling the trailer. I speculate this is because the air bags offer no 'spring', no give. The other puzzling and interesting thing is the truck empty rides nice and smooth with the rear air bags fully inflated. Hmmmmm.

I wonder if the answer is to replace the rear coil springs with heavier ones.

Too bad. Great powertrain. Amazing engine. Suspension absolutely sucks!

Jim

Cumminsfan · 08-21-2016, 11:47 AM

What's the difference between the front and rear fender hieghts empty? I know my 2500 Ram is 3" higher than the front when empty. so squatting 3" makes it level. I only squat 2" with my 5th wheel. I'm wondering if you're squatting 3" then how much lower is the rear than the front? 1", 2"? It really doesn't matter if the rear squats some. That's why trucks are higher in the rear, to compensate for added weight in the bed.
I'll say it again I really think you need a more stout truck. Even an F150 or GM 1500 with Max Tow packages where you'll get stiffer springs. I towed a 31' 7300lb TT with my 2010 F150 and never had any of the setup issues you have. I had a 950lb tongue weight. IMO Ram has dropped the ball by not having the rear a little higher when the trucks empty.

archer75 · 08-21-2016, 11:48 AM

The suspension is fine. You're overloading it. It's that simple. You don't buy the wrong tool for the job and then blame the tool.
That trailer will have more than 1200lb tongue weight when fully loaded. You are solidly in 3/4 ton territory.

Papa_Jim · 08-21-2016, 08:08 PM

I thought through the night about our three hour trip back home today, and dreading it. My mind went back to all the changes I had made to the hitch setup yesterday. I installed the new hitch stalk and set the hitch ball 1" higher than the trailer hitch. I adjusted the WD so that the front end was the same height as when the truck was empty. When I hooked up the trailer, the back of the truck dropped because I had set the air bags at 10 lb. Wait a minute!

Thinking I had absolutely nothing to lose, today I set the air bags at 30 lb. This raised the rear of the truck so it was 2" low, which I think is probably the right height to be when loaded. I checked the front of the truck. Absolutely perfect. I decided that the WD was set OK.

The final result today? Absolutely wonderful. A really smooth ride and really great handling. Now it felt like the truck had control of the trailer. We had a very comfortable pleasant run home today.

The trailer is now only a touch low at the front. The truck is now only a touch low at the back. My wife says not to touch it any more, because now it's working perfect!

I don't understand this, other than to speculate that until I managed to achieve a somewhat level condition for both truck and trailer, nothing I adjusted would work properly.

Jim

1bigmess · 08-21-2016, 08:24 PM

Weigh it. The numbers won't lie.

mhswitch · 08-21-2016, 08:29 PM

Sounds like a success! Persistence pays off, I'm happy to hear you are making a positive change in the way the truck handles. You will probably sleep a whole lot better tonight!!

brulaz · 08-22-2016, 06:18 AM

Congrats. Persistence does pay off!

Papa_Jim · 08-22-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

What's the difference between the front and rear fender hieghts empty? I know my 2500 Ram is 3" higher than the front when empty. so squatting 3" makes it level. I only squat 2" with my 5th wheel. I'm wondering if you're squatting 3" then how much lower is the rear than the front? 1", 2"? It really doesn't matter if the rear squats some. That's why trucks are higher in the rear, to compensate for added weight in the bed.
I'll say it again I really think you need a more stout truck. Even an F150 or GM 1500 with Max Tow packages where you'll get stiffer springs. I towed a 31' 7300lb TT with my 2010 F150 and never had any of the setup issues you have. I had a 950lb tongue weight. IMO Ram has dropped the ball by not having the rear a little higher when the trucks empty.

Empty: front fender 36", rear fender 38".
Trailer hooked up, without W/D: front 37" rear 34"

Here's how the dealer set it up for us:
Trailer hooked up, front of trailer low about 2 1/2", with W/D 5 washers: front 36 1/2, rear 34. At 34" it is not resting on the rubber bumpers, but it's close to touching them. It handled and rode great, although everyone told us it was no good.

Now, I have it set up like this:
Trailer hooked up, front of trailer low about 1", with W/D 6 washers, rear air bags 30lb, front 36", rear 36". It now handles and rides great again.

Here's a picture I took yesterday to show what this looks like.