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Old 11-29-2019, 11:58 PM   #1
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Inverter Install with Portable Gen and Converter

So now that the snow is falling, its time to start planning my future upgrades. There is all kinds of information on the internet but I can't find how to tie in an inverter into the system I have.
First off, I installed 4-6 volt batteries and separate "Boondocker Battery Charger" in the front pass through which I disconnected from the WFCO but tied in the Boondocker so that it also feeds power back to the breaker in the WFCO. I used the same breaker as the WFCO charger. This set up works and is awesome. I have a dedicated plug in the front where I connect my portable generator into so I can charge the batteries while camping and a dedicated plug for a hairdryer inside.
So, I would like to add a 2000W inverter to power all my outlets in the trailer. I do not want to run the AC, Water Heater, or the Boondocker Converter through the Inverter. I would like to be able to run power from any plug and also be able to run the refrigerator and maybe the microwave. All other major consumers will be off. I will need to continue to run the generator for initial charging as this will remain the same.
Given my set up, I need some electrical expertise/diagram on how to build this system to work safely. If there is an easier way and cheaper way, that's cool. Oh, I kinda wanted to have power running with or without the generator running. In the case I've got AC devices plugged in...movies or what ever. Thanks in advance you techies.....
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Old 11-30-2019, 06:30 AM   #2
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Put the inverter in the pass through and connect directly to the battery bank, flip the breaker to the charger and plug the shore cable into the inverter. Voila, poor man's transfer switch, your whole house is powered. Make sure the fridge and water heater are on LP only. With 4 batteries you are good to go.
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Old 11-30-2019, 06:33 AM   #3
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Old 11-30-2019, 07:16 AM   #4
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Yeah, thats a very basic set up. I’m looking at being able to run the refer from the inverter while traveling down the hi-way. If I flip the breaker that is feeding the Boondocker, I would have to bring the AC all he way to the back of the trailer where my 30amp plug is. Or is there a clean way to do something at the WFCO? I already ran romex cable between the WFCO and the pass through in anticipation of this upgrade. Could I tie straight into the WFCO at a spare breaker or is it better to have non-inverter loads separate?
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:14 AM   #5
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Not familiar with generator setups, but I'll throw this out there anyway:

We have 4 - 6v batteries and a 2000W inverter in the passthru with 120VAC line going to an automatic transfer switch next to the WFCO.

We use the 120VAC circuit breakers in the WFCO to make sure that only the outlets and maybe microwave are powered when the inverter is working.

When traveling we run the frig off the inverter as I have an improved charging system running off the truck's alternator in addition to the solar to keep the batteries happy.

When boondocking, the frig is set to "gas only" if the solar can't keep up with it and everything else.
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Old 11-30-2019, 06:10 PM   #6
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Brulaz,

Your set up is similar to mine and I will have 400w of solar panels on the top by spring time, just got a Black Friday deal on them.
Sounds like I should just take the portable generator out of the equation to keep it simple. Do you have an upgraded converter in the pass through like I do with the WFCO Charger disconnected? My Boondocker Converter is still tied into the former breaker as the WFCO Charger was so it provides DC power while plugged in.
How did you wire the transfer switch into the system and how does it work for you (meaning what functions does it perform, how does it work?) Is it mainly for switching between 30 amp shore power and the inverter?
Do you just flip the breakers on the Charger, AC, and Hot Water Heater when on Inverter Power?
Thats exactly what I plan on doing, running the refer off of the inverter while towing as needed, then switch to gas at the camp site. Also be able to run electric from any outlet from the inverter.
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Old 11-30-2019, 07:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azimuth551 View Post
Brulaz,

Your set up is similar to mine and I will have 400w of solar panels on the top by spring time, just got a Black Friday deal on them.
Sounds like I should just take the portable generator out of the equation to keep it simple. Do you have an upgraded converter in the pass through like I do with the WFCO Charger disconnected? My Boondocker Converter is still tied into the former breaker as the WFCO Charger was so it provides DC power while plugged in.
How did you wire the transfer switch into the system and how does it work for you (meaning what functions does it perform, how does it work?) Is it mainly for switching between 30 amp shore power and the inverter?
Do you just flip the breakers on the Charger, AC, and Hot Water Heater when on Inverter Power?
Thats exactly what I plan on doing, running the refer off of the inverter while towing as needed, then switch to gas at the camp site. Also be able to run electric from any outlet from the inverter.
I never upgraded my WFCO converter as my system is a bit more complicated (24V battery bank with a 24V-12V converter and 24V chargers). I do use the WFCO to provide 12V when on shore power (but it is never used to charge the batteries).

The transfer switch is set to first use shorepower if available, then inverter if available. Mine is a GoPower TS-30 (30Amp) mounted right behind the WFCO panel. Just cut the wires from the shorepower socket to the WFCO and insert the transfer switch.

Then wire-in a cable to the inverter. I used a 12ga extension cord in grey plastic pipe under the trailer to the passthru where the inverter was located.

So the inverter can potentially provide juice to all 120VAC circuits in the trailer. But as it's only capable of 2000W (16.6A @120VAC) continuous, with occasional bursts to 2500W (20A), we limit it to the frig (on a socket circuit), microwave, and all the other sockets.

So yes, we just turn off the breakers for 120VAC water heater, A/C and 12V converter when boondocking or traveling. I painted those breakers to make it easier, but nowadays it's pretty routine.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:40 PM   #8
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I was hoping to accomplish the same thing with our trailer next spring. I was looking @ installing a charger/inverter unit with an auto transfer switch built in. One unit simplifies the install.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:55 PM   #9
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by brulaz View Post
I never upgraded my WFCO converter as my system is a bit more complicated (24V battery bank with a 24V-12V converter and 24V chargers). I do use the WFCO to provide 12V when on shore power (but it is never used to charge the batteries).

The transfer switch is set to first use shorepower if available, then inverter if available. Mine is a GoPower TS-30 (30Amp) mounted right behind the WFCO panel. Just cut the wires from the shorepower socket to the WFCO and insert the transfer switch.

Then wire-in a cable to the inverter. I used a 12ga extension cord in grey plastic pipe under the trailer to the passthru where the inverter was located.

So the inverter can potentially provide juice to all 120VAC circuits in the trailer. But as it's only capable of 2000W (16.6A @120VAC) continuous, with occasional bursts to 2500W (20A), we limit it to the frig (on a socket circuit), microwave, and all the other sockets.

So yes, we just turn off the breakers for 120VAC water heater, A/C and 12V converter when boondocking or traveling. I painted those breakers to make it easier, but nowadays it's pretty routine.
These details help me understand the set up...thanks for that! Bet your 24volt system is nice, I already went down the 12v upgrade last year with big wires and 4-6volt batts.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dozer View Post
I was hoping to accomplish the same thing with our trailer next spring. I was looking @ installing a charger/inverter unit with an auto transfer switch built in. One unit simplifies the install.
A possible issue with those combined units is the wiring. You want the inverter as close to the batteries as possible. For my trailer that's the pass-thru as the batteries are on the tongue. But then the transfer switch is also in the pass-thru, but the AC panel and shorepower socket is mid-trailer, so I would need to run the AC wires back and forth as well as the DC from the converter back to the DC panel.

On the other hand, the charger would also be closer to the batteries. But others, like Azimuth, have dealt with that issue by installing a separate, improved charger in the pass-thru.

What would be ideal would be to put sealed batteries mid-trailer close to the WFCO and shorepower socket. The combined unit would then be an easy install then, and there would be less tongue weight. But there's no room in ours for any batteries there.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:55 AM   #11
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...
Bet your 24volt system is nice, I already went down the 12v upgrade last year with big wires and 4-6volt batts.
We started with 12V and a 1000W inverter. Cut a hole thru the front and ran cables for the inverter to the batteries; and it was good.

But then our 120VAC usage grew, and we started pushing the inverter to its limits (and beyond), and I needed more solar but the Rogue MPPT controller input was maxed out with a 12V bank (it can handle twice as much solar at 24V). And I really like that Rogue MPPT controller (they don't make them anymore).

Then I spotted a Kisae 2000W 24V inverter on deep-discount sale! Rewired the batteries to 24V, used the same wiring to the new inverter(!), added a 40A Victron 24V-12V converter and more solar.

The system is a little more complicated, but works well. Not really necessary but was a great retired/hobby project.
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Old 12-01-2019, 08:44 AM   #12
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Brulaz, as you said the inverter always needs to be placed as close as possible to the batteries. That means in a TT the inverter will be mounted in the front pass through if the batteries are mounted up front. In most cases the WFCO panel is normally not @ the very front of the TT either. Ours is roughly @ mid trailer. No matter what if you want to power the entire trailer using the inverter you will be fishing AC wiring from the inverter up front to the WFCO wherever it is mounted. @ this time just run your DC wiring as well.
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Old 12-01-2019, 09:38 AM   #13
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Connect your inverter to the battery using as short a cable as possible. Plug a 12 gauge extension cord into you inverter which is in your pass thru. Cut off the female end of the cord. Run it down through the floor and over to where your WFCO is. I used the blue flexible conduit and zip tied it to the gas pipe. Come up behind your WFCO. Pull the WFCO out and disconnect the shore power AC from it. Connect the shore power and the inverter power to a $50 transfer switch. There are a few different brands and it should tuck in nicely behind the WFCO and be completely hidden. Feed the output of the transfer switch to where the shore power was previously connected to the WFCO. All outlets will have power whether connected to shore power or inverter. I keep the air conditioner and water heater breakers off and only turn them on when connected to shore power (not often). I completely disconnected the converter portion of the WFCO. I have a 90 amp IOTA smart charger in the pass thru that is connected directly to the battery. For the occasional time that the solar is not keeping up, I can directly plug the charger into my generator.


Works great for me. If the inverter is on and also plugged into shore power, I can unplug from shore and it switches so fast that the clocks don't lose time and the Dish Wally receiver does not reset. The transfer switch is a very simple device. You need to look at it and understand how it works. I swapped where the instructions recommended putting the shore power and inverter power. Otherwise there would be a 10 second delay when I unplug from the shore and that would be annoying. So now there is a 10 second delay when I plug into shore. No problem.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:22 AM   #14
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You aren't going to like my answer !! $$$$

Get rid of your current inverter and converter and replace it with an inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch. Run your DC distribution panel directly off the battery.

Samlex and a few other companies make these units. The are easy to install and you do not have any question about how to wire it up !

If you are running on shore power or your rig is connected to your portable generator, you are charging the battery bank (so you have plenty of 12VDC power) and you have 120VAC. If you are not plugged in, the inverter is running. Of course, with the inverter A/C will either trip the breaker or run your battery bank down very quickly !

If you have a chassis mounted generator (most Class A) the is a separate input for that AND an output to trigger the auto-start on the generator !
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