ORV 25RDS Tongue Weight

[oshucks]

For grins, I bought a Sherline 2K pound tongue weight scale. I wanted to get an honest picture of the tongue weight I am imposing on my truck with my shiny new 25RDS trailer. The factory sticker states that the estimated empty tongue weight for this model is 718 pounds.

So I emptied my holding tanks, water heater, fridge, pantry, pass-through storage, etc. I leveled the trailer on a solid pad with the scale nestled in the coupler. I was shocked to see it weigh in at about 1100 pounds! (truth be told, it was at 1250 until I remembered to empty my bins of gear out the pass-through)

If I added up the solar panels, inverter, lithium batteries, half a load of propane, and assorted tools, pots, and pans, there is maybe 400 pounds of non-factory weight in the trailer as it stands (pseudo-empty). But much of that is above or behind the axles, so it shouldn’t have a 1:1 impact on tongue weight. In fact, the stuff is pretty well distributed, so its impact on tongue weight should be pretty low. If the factory empty-weight (~7200) is accurate, plus my stuff, I’d estimate the trailer to be sitting around 7600 lbs. As such, I was expecting the tongue weight to be something under 800, give or take. No, I haven’t taken it to a CAT scale yet, but that’s on my to-do list.

Have any of you folks taken the trouble to actually measure your tongue weight? If so, is the factory "estimated empty tongue weight" a decent approximation, or marketing fiction? I'm struggling to understand how/why this trailer is SO tongue-heavy, especially compared to the factory numbers.

[ttavasc]

The "brochure" weights on our Timber Ridge 23DBS were not that close either which is why we dumped our 1/2 ton for a 3/4 ton when we got the ORV. Our empty tongue weight was around 950 - brochure said ~700. As delivered empty weight per the loading sticker is 7269 - brochure said 6350. Admittedly we have most of the available upgrades on our model so this is not surprising. Loaded for most trips the trailer has scaled out at around 8000-8250 with 1180 tongue weight as measured by the Sherline. That is with full propane and dual Group 24 batteries. We will be upgrading to dual 6v "GC2" size batteries soon which will probably add another 50 to the tongue weight or so. Add another 600 or so to the overall weight when we start filling up the fresh water tank for extended boondocking.

These things are built tough and that is reflected in the empty weights as well as the available cargo capacity. Even with the difference between "brochure" empty weight and as-delivered empty weight our unit still has over 2700 available cargo capacity.

[Cumminsfan]

My 2019 25 RDS is 1350 lbs per Oregon hwy scales. I pulled into one that was closed but like all Oregon scales the digital weight readout still works.
I unhitched and only the tongue was on the scale. 1350lbs. the scales are in 50 lb increments so it could be 1351-1399 lbs I suppose.
I have four 100W solar panels on the front part of the roof. A 200W inverter in the pass thru. Spare tire moved to the front underneath 1/2 way between the axles and coupler, 4 GC batteries, full pass thru and bedroom along with 2 bikes hanging off the rear. TT weighs 9500 lbs loaded.

Interesting that ORV says my CCC should be 2915 lbs per brochure. On the yellow sticker I only have 2106 lbs or so. So the TT is around 800 lbs heavier dry.

[The John]

im not surprised, our trailers are super tongue heavy. I haven't weighed my tongue weight specifically, but my trailer is heavy.

However, I bought my ORV knowing this and I have a F250 which pulls it wonderfully. I have heavy bars (1400pds) for my WDH, I may even need to up-size them.....

[Highway 4x4]

My '14 250RDSW has plenty of tongue weight and that is good when I travel with a full tank of fresh water. Better to have too much tongue weight than not enough. I have cruised at 70 where legal with no issues. I use an old Ez lift hitch with 1000 pound bars and friction sway. Thinking I should upgrade it someday.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by oshucks

...

Have any of you folks taken the trouble to actually measure your tongue weight? If so, is the factory "estimated empty tongue weight" a decent approximation, or marketing fiction?
...

Fiction.
With our loaded 240RKS, we averaged 1200# over many CAT Scale weighs with our F150. That was over 15% of trailer weight. Typical for ORV trailers from what I've read here. As mentioned, that high % is good for stability, but hard on the 1/2 ton.

[oshucks]

So there appears to be unanimous opinion that ORV trailers tend to run tongue-heavy. Everybody seems to concur that more tongue weight is better, within reason. Of course the rule-of-thumb we've all seen is to shoot for 10-15% tongue weight for stability.

But is 10% sufficient?

For this trailer, hypothetically loaded to 9K pounds with gear and water (still shy of its 10K GVWR...), that puts the target tongue weight somewhere between 900 and 1350. My half-ton can arguably handle 900, but 1350 means my wife has to get out and walk, and that's not going to fly.

I think my next move is to load the trailer down with water and full complement of camping regalia, and visit a CAT scale. That will give me a real-world loaded gross weight for the trailer. From there, I can park it at home, put it on the tongue scale, and play a big game of Tetris with whatever payload is movable to see how the tongue weight can be influenced. I'm guessing that most everything that can will need to go behind the axle (stocked on and under the rear dinette table with some jerry-rigged tie-downs), leaving the front pass-through and under-bed areas empty or loaded with light bulky stuff. A royal pain in the butt, perhaps, but it may avoid needing a new truck.

But all that horsing around is for naught if the real-world experience of you seasoned vets shows that 10% isn't really enough to keep the rig stable.

Plan B is to delay my retirement several more months until I can bankroll a 3/4 ton, and I'd REALLY like to avoid that so I can get out there camping soon...

[Highway 4x4]

My fresh water tank on my 250RDSW is behind the axles so filling it will put about 500 pounds in the rear end. It still tows fine with it full.

If you are going to tow with a heavy tongue on a 1/2 ton then get some E rated tires, rear air bags and crank up the WD hitch. Or,, get a 3/4 ton and be done with it.

[J Journey]

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4

My fresh water tank on my 250RDSW is behind the axles so filling it will put about 500 pounds in the rear end. It still tows fine with it full.

If you are going to tow with a heavy tongue on a 1/2 ton then get some E rated tires, rear air bags and crank up the WD hitch. Or,, get a 3/4 ton and be done with it.

Pulling these with a 150 and then pushing the speed up to 70 is a receipt for disaster for you and those around you.

[Cumminsfan]

After towing a 31' SOB TT @7300 lbs with a 2010 F150 Max Tow with 1857 lbs of CCC and towing that same SOB TT with a 2012 2500 and towing my ORV 25RDS @9500 lbs loaded with my current 2018 2500 no way would I tow my ORV with a Max Tow F150.
Most F150's have a 145" WB. Moving up to the 6.5 bed you at least are going to 156" WB.
Problem is the trucks weight is very low compared to the loaded TT. Curb weight on a Super Crew 5.5 and 6.5 beds is around 5,000 lbs in decent trim.
My 2500 6.4 CC LB 4x4 is around 6800 lbs.
With the heavier longer truck you get much more control. Not as much tail wagging the dog stuff.
Since you're already thinking HD truck then thats good.

With 5th wheels you can get away with a lighter truck and heavier trailer. Not so with TT's.

[brulaz]

I pulled our ORV with a 2011 4x2 F150 for a few years but upgraded the tires and shocks first. With the 2025# payload we didn't exceed the GVWR, but were always over weight on the rear axle and hitch receiver, which is prolly worse than exceeding the GVWR. And I didn't feel comfortable going much over 60mph when towing.

We upgraded to the 3/4 ton when the 1/2 ton's drivetrain warranty expired. Decided we needed a 4x4 anyway. And the F150's tranny and hitch receiver were getting rather loosey-goosey.

By the way, people pulling boats and open car haulers routinely go only 5-10% tongue weight. Apparently the aerodynamics makes that possible.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by brulaz

I pulled our ORV with a 2011 4x2 F150 for a few years but upgraded the tires and shocks first. With the 2025# payload we didn't exceed the GVWR, but were always over weight on the rear axle and hitch receiver, which is prolly worse than exceeding the GVWR. And I didn't feel comfortable going much over 60mph when towing.

We upgraded to the 3/4 ton when the 1/2 ton's drivetrain warranty expired. Decided we needed a 4x4 anyway. And the F150's tranny and hitch receiver were getting rather loosey-goosey.

By the way, people pulling boats and open car haulers routinely go only 5-10% tongue weight. Apparently the aerodynamics makes that possible.

Boat trailers typical have the axle(s) very rearward since most boats are way heavier in the rear. Having that axle at the rear of the trailer provides a much better tracking trailer than one thats at 60/40%.

[Highway 4x4]

Originally Posted by J Journey

Pulling these with a 150 and then pushing the speed up to 70 is a receipt for disaster for you and those around you.

There is no way I would pull my 250RDSW with a 1/2 ton really at all. But my Ram 2500 diesel 4x4 is about 8K by itself empty and well over that on a trip. My regular tow speed is a click under 65 so 70 is no big deal. I have TPMS on all 8 tires and I stay away from everyone. I don't travel at night and slow way down in the rain.

[gbgeezer]

Adding another hitch weight data point, we had our 2018 Blackstone 260rlws weighted last year when fully loaded. Weight on trailer axles was 8600#, hitch 1500#. Well in line with expectations and others experience. 3/4 truck a must. Fortunately we have one since our previous trailer was similar in size and gvwr as this one.