Outdoors RV Black Stone head ache

[1010]

I have made numerous posts about our Black Stone, dry tongue weight heavier then advertised, the roof, fit & finish issues and quality control. I was told the trailer would arrive clean, just like it was delivered new. After 7 weeks at the factory in La Grande the trailer came back dirty inside & out, I would not expect the outside of a trailer to be clean after a 500 mile trip, but it was obvious it had not been cleaned prior to transport. The inside was dusty, sawdust everywhere and oily spots on the floor, if any attempt was made to clean it I couldn't see it.

The dry tongue weight, their certified scale is about 200 lbs lighter then the certified scales I used, oh well.

The work done inside and out was good, happy with it, but a few things must have happened on the way down from Oregon. More wood separation on the cabinets that were not there when we dropped off the trailer and I know they would have seen & fixed them. A few things that were repaired need to be re repaired. The dining room table has a decent sized indented scratch now, the propane tank cover front is scratched and has several deep gouges in it and the aluminum tool box on the rear of the trailer now has a dented in lid, currently in "discussion" with the damage done.

After being at the factory for 7 weeks I had to take it back to the dealer for repairs that were missed, not done correctly and what I believe to have happened in transit.

While at the factory, several things were fixed or added that were not warranty issues and I appreciate that. I am happy for the most part with the people at ORV and the work they did on our trailer, but most of the issues were the result of poor quality, poor workmanship and lack of quality control in the first place.

Having our trailer in for repairs for 5 out of 10 months we have owned it is not what we had in mind when we bought it.

[Shamrock56]

This may not make you feel any better, but your post made me feel better. We have had unacceptable service performed on our MH 3 times. Our MH is 20 yrs old and overall in great shape. However, after having the transmission serviced (nothing really wrong, just wanted it checked out by a preferred transmission rep) shifting became sloppy and could not engage one gear. Took an act of God to get it resolved. Then on to brakes and $4,000 later, still no brakes. Finally got that ironed out this summer, different place, much different (better) result. Last, but certainly not least, after a break in of our MH on our driveway we had an insurance claim and the chosen repair facility replaced locks on the outside storage doors and rebuilt 2 of those doors. We just returned to the repair center yesterday to show them the locks are falling out and the fiberglass repair job is rippled. They had the MH for 6 weeks to repair. In their defense, the locks were really difficult to locate, but in my opinion they should have know that before they estimated the job. Anyway, I thought it was just because our rig is 20 yrs old; I cannot imagine dealing with these issues with a new unit. Sorry for all the trouble you have experience and good luck with repairs.

[IdahoBob]

1010,

What a sad story. I can't imagine going through this headache/heartache. Fortunately your experience seems not be typical of ORV products, but of course that is of little consolation for you.

Now that we have worked out the few initial issues with our Wind River, we absolutely love it. But not the sawdust that continues to dribble down from the ceiling in various places.

Bob

[schrederman]

RV manufacturers really need a kick in the pants like the foreign invasion that made the American Auto Industry shape up. The quality of most units is really hit-and-miss. They don't seem to care much about that, they just keep slappin' 'em together and rollin' 'em out the door. I've been fortunate, so far. Mine's never been back to a dealer. I guess it was built on Wednesday... It peeves me to hear about the troubles others are having, because I will probably trade up once more, and I am afraid I won't be so lucky next time.

[1010]

Originally Posted by IdahoBob

1010,

What a sad story. I can't imagine going through this headache/heartache. Fortunately your experience seems not be typical of ORV products, but of course that is of little consolation for you.

Now that we have worked out the few initial issues with our Wind River, we absolutely love it. But not the sawdust that continues to dribble down from the ceiling in various places.

Bob

I don't think our trailer is typical of ORV products, I am waiting to get the trailer back then I am going to contact Gail regarding the roof, if Dave said it is ok and "we will fix it" in 5 years then I see no reason why I should not get a "new factory warranty" on it for 5 years, doubt ORV will think the same though. I am also going to ask for some sort of compensation for the lack of use and the monthly payments did not stop while the trailer was unavailable to us. My last conversation with Dave got a little "tense", I am sure he is tired of dealing with me, don't blame him but if the trailer was built like it should have been and had the quality control they say they have was present, we would all be happy. I think I have been more then amiable with ORV up to this point.

When I was at Cordelia RV I looked at a couple of Glacier Peaks and a Black Stone, the cabinetry looked really good, fit & finish throughout the trailer was good.

[IdahoBob]

Originally Posted by 1010

I don't think our trailer is typical of ORV products, I am waiting to get the trailer back then I am going to contact Gail regarding the roof, if Dave said it is ok and "we will fix it" in 5 years then I see no reason why I should not get a "new factory warranty" on it for 5 years, doubt ORV will think the same though. I am also going to ask for some sort of compensation for the lack of use and the monthly payments did not stop while the trailer was unavailable to us. My last conversation with Dave got a little "tense", I am sure he is tired of dealing with me, don't blame him but if the trailer was built like it should have been and had the quality control they say they have was present, we would all be happy. I think I have been more then amiable with ORV up to this point.

When I was at Cordelia RV I looked at a couple of Glacier Peaks and a Black Stone, the cabinetry looked really good, fit & finish throughout the trailer was good.

1010,

With the history of your rig, the promises from the ORV staff, and the requests you rightly intend to make, I would not deal with Gail or Dave. As nice and as helpful they may have been, I would elevate my discussion to the top.

You have MAJOR issues and have suffered SIGNIFICANT inconveniences. I would do everything I could to talk directly with Ward King (Northwood and OutdoorsRV CEO). I would precede that call with a letter to him (registered, copy to my attorney) that outlines in detail, the problems, the costs and personal inconveniences you have suffered and are suffering. If you are to the point you want to give up on the rig, I might push for ORV to buy-back your unit or for them to arrange a fair trade in allowance.

I'm sure that California has lemon laws for RVs. That is another avenue I would consider, if I was ready to give up on the rig, and ORV.

Good luck!

Bob

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by 1010

I don't think our trailer is typical of ORV products, I am waiting to get the trailer back then I am going to contact Gail regarding the roof, if Dave said it is ok and "we will fix it" in 5 years then I see no reason why I should not get a "new factory warranty" on it for 5 years, doubt ORV will think the same though. I am also going to ask for some sort of compensation for the lack of use and the monthly payments did not stop while the trailer was unavailable to us. My last conversation with Dave got a little "tense", I am sure he is tired of dealing with me, don't blame him but if the trailer was built like it should have been and had the quality control they say they have was present, we would all be happy. I think I have been more then amiable with ORV up to this point.

When I was at Cordelia RV I looked at a couple of Glacier Peaks and a Black Stone, the cabinetry looked really good, fit & finish throughout the trailer was good.

Check your warranry docs. I bet it says they do not compensate for loss of use. Our DSDP was in the shop for 113 days out of the first 305 says of ownership and neither Newmar nor the dealer was on the hook for the loss.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by IdahoBob

1010

I'm sure that California has lemon laws for RVs. That is another avenue I would consider, if I was ready to give up on the rig, and ORV.

Good luck!

Bob

Lemon laws usually don't cover anything on a towable, but the laws do vary by state. WA only covers the chassis portion of a MH and then only for safety defects, no 5th wheels or TT's. Looks like CA is about the same, seems not to cover non motorized towables like a 5th wheel or TT.

[1010]

Originally Posted by IdahoBob

1010,

With the history of your rig, the promises from the ORV staff, and the requests you rightly intend to make, I would not deal with Gail or Dave. As nice and as helpful they may have been, I would elevate my discussion to the top.

You have MAJOR issues and have suffered SIGNIFICANT inconveniences. I would do everything I could to talk directly with Ward King (Northwood and OutdoorsRV CEO). I would precede that call with a letter to him (registered, copy to my attorney) that outlines in detail, the problems, the costs and personal inconveniences you have suffered and are suffering. If you are to the point you want to give up on the rig, I might push for ORV to buy-back your unit or for them to arrange a fair trade in allowance.

I'm sure that California has lemon laws for RVs. That is another avenue I would consider, if I was ready to give up on the rig, and ORV.

Good luck!

Bob

Thanks for the name at the top. I have no problem following the "chain of command", did it my entire career. I am pretty much done with Dave, will see what he has to say when he gets back regarding the damage done while at ORV, in any case the next step is Gail, from there his his boss, may end up with Mr. King. We would like ORV to buy back the trailer, that will be one of the first things I say to Gail.

California does not have RV lemon laws for trailers, and if they did all it is required of the dealer/factory to do is continually "fix it", until you get tired of the pony show and hire an attorney. I doubt it would pay us to hire an attorney, ORV will know that so I am hoping they will stand up and find a resolution that we can both live with.

[1010]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

Check your warranry docs. I bet it says they do not compensate for loss of use. Our DSDP was in the shop for 113 days out of the first 305 says of ownership and neither Newmar nor the dealer was on the hook for the loss.

I was seriously looking at Newmar as I understood them to be a company that stood behind their product.

I know ORV does not have to compensate for loss of use, that does not make it right when your RV is the shop for as long as yours was or ours has been. Maybe your Newmar, like I believe our Black Stone to be is one of those units that just came out as a lemon and that is all the more reason to stand behind the product, fix it, make the owner happy and he/she will sing praises. I am will be asking for reasonable compensation for the lack of use and I will be happy if ORV responds to that in kind. As far as the roof goes, I don't think I would have any problem having independent RV techs confirm my suspicions, the issue will be how long do I want to be without my trailer the next year.

[D Lindy]

As to the difference in the tongue weight, their weight is minus battery, and propane, like most factory weights they don't include these of other added options. So yours being 200lbs heavier is not an uncommon situation.

[IdahoBob]

Originally Posted by 1010

Thanks for the name at the top. I have no problem following the "chain of command", did it my entire career.

1010,

Since my current job and livelihood don't depend on following the "chain of command" (I'm retired), and since anybody going up the chain can say "no" and few will have the guts to say "yes", i.e. support your claims, I'd still go directly to the top.

Too bad it is not closer to the forthcoming ORV Campout. You could bring your rig and have a "show and tell" for the ORV factory management folks that attend. Ward King attended last year.

Bob

[Lac]

For what's it's worth, at the ORV Campout Mr. King and I had a very good discussion about my significant frustration of the replacement process of our hot water tank....it was replaced at no charge...as well as other minor fixes. I got the sense he was extremely customer focussed and knows who pays the ORV bills.
If your unit is in La Grande long enough you could pick it up just in time for next years ORV Campout....just saying....sorry for being cheeky

I feel your frustration ....hang in there and thanks for the updates.
Coops

[1010]

Originally Posted by D Lindy

As to the difference in the tongue weight, their weight is minus battery, and propane, like most factory weights they don't include these of other added options. So yours being 200lbs heavier is not an uncommon situation.

I removed everything from the trailer (empty except 10 gallons of water in the water heater and a couple of gallons in the black water tank, subtracted the weight of two full propane bottles, two 6 volt batteries and the wood block that the trailer tongue sat on. I used Dave's estimations for the weight of the hitch distribution parts on the tongue and options added to the trailer and subtracted that to the weight on the weigh ticket, two hundred pounds heavier then the advertised dry weight.

While at ORV our trailer was emptied, our propane bottles removed and replaced with two empty bottles. The batteries were not removed (locked) and the weight of the batteries (we used the same number of pounds) subtracted. The water heater & black water tank were not emptied. Dave e-mailed his weigh tickets, 11 pounds heavier then the advertised dry weight.

I first weighed the trailer at a CAT where it was too busy to disconnect the trailer, so I went on the scales twice, once with the bars connected to the TV and once with out the bars connected, subtracted the difference & came up with about 250 pounds more then the advertised dry weight after subtracting the propane & batteries. I did not subtract the weight of the distribution parts nor the added options.

The second weighing of the trailer was tongue only on the scale.