Tongue weight 280RKS (GVWR of 9600#)

[rconkling]

Originally Posted by John Pattee

I have the Blackstone 280RLSB and the dry tongue weight was listed as #1220 but scaled weight is #1650 loaded with usual gear. My F250 stock hitch was rated at #1250 - to be on the safe side I upgraded to the Curt hitch referenced above. It still has a 2" receiver but is very stout.

The one possible weak link is the shank. There isn't a rating sticker on it nor a make/model to look it up. Should I be concerned???

Is the 1250# the hitch rating or max tongue weight for the truck?

Either way, you are exceeding the limit by over 30%.

[rconkling]

Originally Posted by SoCalAngler

Curious to know if anyone has tongue weights for this model when fully loaded with gear, water, propane, etc?

I am going to weigh mine in a couple of weeks (as soon as I loaded with all my gear), but was curious to know weights......based on the GVWR of 9600

Mathematically it should be between...

10%: 960#

15%: 1440#

That's quite a range. I believe I need to upgrade my stock receiver hitch which is rated at 1250# of weight distributed tongue weight. That falls between those figures.

NOTE: Most shanks are rated at 1400#. I found one rated at 1500# . I listed links in my other thread for the hitch and shank I am considering.

Thanks!

If the max tongue weight of your truck is 1250#, upgrading the receiver will be of little value.

[John Pattee]

Originally Posted by rconkling

Is the 1250# the hitch rating or max tongue weight for the truck?

Either way, you are exceeding the limit by over 30%.

The tow vehicle is a F250 with the camper package option (upper overload springs). The stock Ford receiver limit was 12K tow and 1250 tongue weight - I replaced it with a Curt receiver with 17K tow and 2550 tongue weight limits.

Plenty of margin on the truck rear axle rating and overall payload. Using StableLoads to pre-engage the overload springs which supports the load nicely. Handling is excellent.

[keymastr]

The weight limits stamped on the receiver have nothing to do with the weight limits of the truck, as John mentioned. You must pay attention to ALL the different weight limits. Some of them can be upgraded such as the receiver or wheels and tires. Axle ratings or cargo capacity cannot.

[rconkling]

Originally Posted by John Pattee

The tow vehicle is a F250 with the camper package option (upper overload springs). The stock Ford receiver limit was 12K tow and 1250 tongue weight - I replaced it with a Curt receiver with 17K tow and 2550 tongue weight limits.

Plenty of margin on the truck rear axle rating and overall payload. Using StableLoads to pre-engage the overload springs which supports the load nicely. Handling is excellent.

That’s all well and good, but what does the manual say is the max tongue load for the vehicle?

An upgraded receiver is nice, but if the truck is only rated for 1250, you wasted your money. The axle ratings are independent of the other weights, I.e. gross combined vehicle weight, gross vehicle weight, and max tongue load.

[Cumminsfan]

The receiver is normally 10% of the tow rating. i.e 12,500 tow rating, 1250 receiver rating.
Nothing says you can't add a higher rated receiver for a higher rated tongue weight.
Ford and every other publications says that the tongue weight of the trailer should be 10%-15%. If you have a 12,500 trailer and load it heavy in the front then you could easily have an 1875 lb tongue weight @15%.
Just upgrade the receiver. The receiver and the truck have nothing more in common than the usual 10% of the max tow rating. It has nothing to do with frame strength or suspension, etc.

[jtbuilds]

Tongue weight rating is no different than tow rating, tire rating, axle rating, receiver rating.

[John Pattee]

The F250 rear axle weight rating (RAWR) is 6100#. It scales at about 4800# loaded up for a typical camping trip. Well under the GVWR and GCWR as well as the trailer GVWR.

It is a heavy trailer and would overload a F150 or other half ton truck. A 3/4 or 1 ton is the right tool for the job.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by rconkling

That’s all well and good, but what does the manual say is the max tongue load for the vehicle?

An upgraded receiver is nice, but if the truck is only rated for 1250, you wasted your money. The axle ratings are independent of the other weights, I.e. gross combined vehicle weight, gross vehicle weight, and max tongue load.

Never heard of max tongue load for vehicle, only for the receiver; and that can be changed, as John Pattee has done.

[SoCalAngler]

Originally Posted by brulaz

Never heard of max tongue load for vehicle, only for the receiver; and that can be changed, as John Pattee has done.

I also have never heard of a "tongue rating" or "Max tongue weight" by truck makers. Rather, GVWR and GAWR (ft/rear) determine the truck's capacity, whether it be payload or tongue weights/capacities.

[rconkling]

Originally Posted by SoCalAngler

I also have never heard of a "tongue rating" or "Max tongue weight" by truck makers. Rather, GVWR and GAWR (ft/rear) determine the truck's capacity, whether it be payload or tongue weights/capacities.

They hide all this info in the owners manual.

It’s important stuff. You need to read the towing section of the manual and know exactly what options you have installed.

Here is a PDF from Ford laying out the capacities of a 2015 F250. Trucks are more confusing and have many more numbers due to the options available, rear end gearing, bed/framemlenght, etc.


None of the capacities of the truck can be changed or upgraded by installing new parts. The new part may handle more weight but the truck and the rest of its components will not.

https://secure.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/15RV&TT_Ford_SuperDtyPU_Sep30.pdf

From what I see the f250 max tongue load, listed at the bottom of page 4, says max tongue load of 1250# or 1400# with the 6.7l diesel. The only way to carry more tongue weights is to upgrade to the f350 or f450.

This is for a standard bumper mounted hitch and requires a WDH system.

Again this PDF directs you to the towing section of the manual for more specific numbers.

[Freqz]

I'm not sure that's the way this works. Some engineer somewhere determines how much trailer can be towed based on a bunch of data, divides that by 10 and orders the smallest hitch that meets that tongue weight and gets a high 5 from management for saving 25 bucks not ordering a hitch that will handle real world tongue weights that are within the design limits of GVWR, RAWR, and max rated conventional tow capacity.

But maybe I'm just cynical.

[rconkling]

Originally Posted by Freqz

I'm not sure that's the way this works. Some engineer somewhere determines how much trailer can be towed based on a bunch of data, divides that by 10 and orders the smallest hitch that meets that tongue weight and gets a high 5 from management for saving 25 bucks not ordering a hitch that will handle real world tongue weights that are within the design limits of GVWR, RAWR, and max rated conventional tow capacity.

But maybe I'm just cynical.

So you are disputing the weights Ford publishes and used to certify the vehicle with the DOT?

I agree they are engineered to barely meet the weights specified. But that’s exactly the problem. Just because the receiver is upgraded to carry mode weight, none of the rest of the truck was upgraded. The rest of the components, bolts, nuts, hangars, bushings, brakes, shocks, mounts, etc were all engineered to barely meet the requirements of he old receiver.

[Freqz]

I think they buy the cheapest hitch available to be 10% of the published conventional tow rating because that's all that's required. Not that it covers all possible load combinations that don't violate the 3 controlling numbers.

If you're under tow rating, GVWR, and RAWR and are maintaining adequate weight on your front end what's the problem?

Ever see a guy with a 2000 pound bale of hay hanging off the back of his truck on a spike? If he is within all other design parameters, why is that ok but magically putting that weight on a ball is somehow different?