Water drains - Four Seasons?

[Papa_Jim]

I can't believe I haven't thought this one through before.

I understand the water and tank systems are four seasons, enclosed and sealed in insulation, heated by the furnace. So I would assume it would be possible to travel in freezing temperatures as long as the furnace is running to keep the trailer warm.

But these water drain valves hang down below the insulation, not heated. How does that work?

Jim

[ModestMonk]

Four seasons is a very relative term. I don't think I would trust using the plumbing during hard freezes. Pex pipes have a tolerance to freezing, but they will freeze. Repeated freezing will deminish them. I would think you have a new mod coming for the ORV modification thread?

I would check with 1BigMess he full times in Idaho and Now in Washington.

[60sumtin]

Travelling with the propane valves open so propane appliances like the furnace can operate while traveling is never a good idea. If you have an accident and a propane line is ruptured you have an excellent chance of one serious fire. Not good for you or anyone else involved or nearby.

ORV for marketing purposes might be able to call it 4 Seasons while camped but for traveling any length of time in cold weather is a problem they don't address.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by 60sumtin

Travelling with the propane valves open so propane appliances like the furnace can operate while traveling is never a good idea.
...

We always run with the propane tanks open and the frig running on propane.
A lotta people do.

And with respect to the OP's question, my guess is that those simple twist plugs can handle freezing as long as the water has some place to expand up into when it freezes.

My old trailer had exposed dump valves that were repeatedly frozen shut, and they didn't seem to mind that much. The water behind them could expand back up into the pipes and tanks behind them.

However my 240RKS also has an exposed FW tank drain valve that looks a lot like an exposed twist valve on my old trailer that did bust when frozen. So I dunno about that and try to keep the FW tank heater on when it's freezing out side.

EDIT: just took another look at the OP's picture and they are twist valves! not the screw in plugs like on my trailer. So yes, I would be concerned that they might break when frozen.

[Papa_Jim]

Originally Posted by ModestMonk

Four seasons is a very relative term. I don't think I would trust using the plumbing during hard freezes. Pex pipes have a tolerance to freezing, but they will freeze. Repeated freezing will deminish them. I would think you have a new mod coming for the ORV modification thread?

I would check with 1BigMess he full times in Idaho and Now in Washington.

I guess this is something I could mod if I thought about it enough.

I just don't get it though. Why all the work to seal and insulate the plumbing and the tanks and provide heat to them, only to hang the water drain valves down in the open where they can freeze? This means I can't have water on board, which means there's no sense to the tanks or any of the other parts of the system being insulated and heated....

I would think the water drain valves should have been mounted above the insulation with only the pipes protruding down through the insulation.

Oh well.....

As my wife often likes to say, "It's obvious that a man designed this!"

Jim

[Mr_D]

Modern propane systems sre designed, built, tested and certified to be on when traveling. Turn it on, set the heat Sanqnd take off. Also, the tanks now have a high flow valve, in case of a line break it shuts off the gas flow.

[60sumtin]

Originally Posted by brulaz

We always run with the propane tanks open and the frig running on propane.
A lotta people do.

You apparently glossed over the part about what could happen if your trailer was hit and/or a propane line ruptured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJMTQWWoMSw

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by 60sumtin

You apparently glossed over the part about what could happen if your trailer was hit and/or a propane line ruptured.

Nope.
It can happen.
There's also a risk just walking across the street.
We all rate risks differently and have different risk tolerance.

[4x4van]

RV propane systems are designed to be used while traveling down the road.
All tanks and cylinders have built in excess flow valves designed to stop gas flow in the case of a line rupture (see here: http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore...like/id44.html ). The claim made in the video about 5 fatalities due to a ruptured LPG line is bogus, or occurred more than 40 years ago. If someone has to make things up to make their point, then as a rule I ignore everything else they have to say.

[Lac]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

Modern propane systems sre designed, built, tested and certified to be on when traveling. Turn it on, set the heat Sanqnd take off. Also, the tanks now have a high flow valve, in case of a line break it shuts off the gas flow.

Would you be so kind as to send the links related to the auto shut off valves when a propane line breaks. Yes in auto propane there is a auto shut off valve.
The OPD valve on propane tanks restricts overfilling (in flow) not out flow.
In British Columbia it is illegal to travel with propane tanks open in an RV.
I know most everyone does it..including me on occasion, it doesn’t mean it’s right, legal or safe...in BC anyways.

Here is the link.
Operating RV's with Propane On | DriveSmartBC

Coops

[Lac]

Originally Posted by 4x4van

RV propane systems are designed to be used while traveling down the road.

I would be interested in where this information came from. Could you send me a link. What state or province does this apply to?

Many thanks.

Coops

[1bigmess]

Last winter I used skirting while parked, and when temps went below zero the protected water lines froze up. The only thing that thawed them out was running the furnace hard for twenty minutes. I don't have any water leaks after five or six freeze ups, but u know I've pushed my luck.

Daytime temps are higher, and that is usually when we are traveling. If I were to travel in sub freezing temps, I would open the low point drains and drive. Other campers in below freezing temps wrapped the low point drains in fiberglass insulation and covered in foil.

[4x4van]

Originally Posted by Lac

I would be interested in where this information came from. Could you send me a link. What state or province does this apply to?

Many thanks.

Coops

Show me a single RV owner manual that says to shut off the LPG when traveling. Show me a single verified instance of an RV fire caused by an accident rupturing an LPG line (Propane ignitions account for just 1/10 of 1% of all fires. The chances of fire from your gasoline system, or electrical system, is magnitudes greater). The only real danger is if the LPG tank itself is ruptured, and turning the propane off will certainly have no effect in that case.

BTW, I know nothing about Canadian laws, only US. No US laws against using LPG while traveling (other than certain tunnels, etc).

Here is where you can read about the excess flow devices built into every LPG cylinder since 1977, and fixed tanks for even longer: http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore...like/id44.html

[IdahoBob]

Originally Posted by Lac

I would be interested in where this information came from. Could you send me a link. What state or province does this apply to?

Many thanks.

Coops

Hey Coops, and others,

I have read that our US propane tank valves will indeed shut off if a downstream high flow/pipe rupture has occurred. In fact, in our trailer, and in using our home BBQ, if the tank valve in opened "rapidly" the valve will shut down. I know this from experience. So, we alway open our tank valves very sloooowly. Unless someone forgets.

Mr. Wonderful