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Old 09-12-2018, 02:03 PM   #29
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BRex...I think you and I have a different definition of "Jail Bait". At least, I hope we do
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BRex45 View Post
Russ

Specifically,

What problems have you encountered with your fiver?
See below.

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How many dealers turned you down for warranty work? How many were AF dealers? I would remember if it was two, or was it three?

Specifics please and maybe where the dealers are located?
Maybe you would remember the dealers that turned you away, or maybe you just think you would. I guess I don't see any point in keeping track of dealers that wouldn't take in my work as I was traveling through their part of the country in areas to which I may never return. There was also a repair facility (not a dealer), the one that turned us down because Northwood wouldn't pay what they wanted. I do not wish to mention their name because I do not wish to dignify them and due to potential litigation.

I can tell you that Cordelia RV is one Arctic Fox dealer that turned us away. I remember them because they were the nearest AF dealer to where I was living and I had been there several times when shopping. There were at least two Arctic Fox dealers in CO that turned away our warranty work but I didn't make note of their names. I think one was in or near Montrose and the other near Pueblo. You can look them up if you want to.

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As an aside my best buddy has a nephew who lived in NE Oregon for awhile and hired on at the Northland factory. He quit after a few months, saying it was chaotic at the plant, you never knew who you were going to work with day to day and many of his co-workers were jail bait. The nephew is quite believable but I have not verified his statements.
I believe you mean Northwood, not Northland. I can't say I find the report from your friend's nephew all that surprising.

Below is a _partial_ list of items I reported or will report for warranty repair or that I fixed myself. Some items are no longer on the list because they have been repaired. Some of the items may be difficult to envision without photos or because I don't have the proper terms such as part names to describe them. In addition, I have found a number screws set so close to the edge of the substrate into which they were screwed that the substrate cracked or the screws had been over-tightened so that the substrate was damaged and unable to securly hold the screw. I'm not talking about just a few screws either.

Lamp over recliner driver side mounting screw stripped
Cracked shelf suport, closet
Dinette lampshade loosens repeatedly
Sliding door hanger parts not connected, living room
Sliding door hanger not greased, living room
Sliding door track screw missing, wrong screw
Dinette chair falling apart
Drawer latch, lower, right of sink broken
Ceiling material separatiing from substrate, bubbling and starting to come down, bedroom and living area
Furnace grill cracked
Bulb seal, water fill and pass through compartments falling off
Output wire from transfer switch resting on and being cut into by sharp edge of water pump: short circuit and fire hazard, IMHO. I'm including a photo of this one.
Water hoses resting on transfer switch where a leak could cause a short circuit and/or fire, IMHO
Transfer switch cover screw stripped
Transfer switch cover not installed properly
Transfer switch had sawdust and wire strands inside--short circuit and fire hazard, IMHO
12 volt receptacle dead, by bedroom TV
Charging stations on sides of the bed inoperative
Carpet edging falling off, main slide
Carpet edging strip, stairs, dangerous sharp edge
Enlarge hole for water lines, pass-thru, water lines are being squeezed and access cover cannot be set flush because hole made for the water lines at factory was in the wrong place
Convection oven preheat & temp 50º low
Convection oven will not attain 425º
Uneven cabinet doors
Torn weatherstripping, rear corner, main slide
Main slide wiper seal doesn't deploy properly
Main slide wiper seal being torn up in corners by sharp metal of the outer slide wall
Main slide bub seal torn in several places
Screws protruding under RV, see main slide (hazard)
Main slide squeals
Main slide clangs sometimes when reaching 2/3 in
Main slide doesn't always retract all the way
Bathroom door strike friction excessive and door very difficult to close unless low humidity
Water pump cycles when not in use
Stripped screw hole leveling control panel
Damage to white seal, top rear of main slide
Tear in waterproofing material underside near battery compartment
Bent tab on water heater
Improperly mounted water pipe behind water bay
Some exterior decal cracking
Leak from roof ladder
​Screw holes too near edge 12v fuse panel and stripped
Right door, bedroom closet sometimes won't open all the way
Screws coming through the steps to the bedroom
Main slide roof sags
Main slide stop bolt bent and jam nut not tightened
Carpet badly worn by main slide at rear
Shower fixture falling off the wall
Curtain stays broken
Glass dome of ceing light fell out
Many if not most of the screws holding the trim around the entry door are stripped out

As I wrote above, this is a partial list of what I see as build quality issues. A few represented serious hazards, IMHO. Taken all together, it is my opinion that the things I've seen make it seem that Northwood may be a prideless company with workers that either don't care or aren't allowed to care. Also, taken together, I regard the build quality, shortcuts taken in repair work, and difficulty in obtaining warranty repair both astonishing and an indictment of the manufacturer and facilities that have worked on my RV.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:21 PM   #31
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Russ, gien your satisfaction with Northwood, and given the expense of a new truck and 5th wheel, I'd call Northwood and tell them of your experience with issues and dealers, then I'd plan a trip to LaGrand OR and have them fix it to your satisfaction...which they will.

And then let us know the results!
Here are the results...

Northwood is very well aware of the issues with my RV, and my experience with dealers, believe me, they know all too well.

You make it sound so simple to plan a trip to the factory. Ain't so. At the moment and for the foreseaable future I am 3,000 miles away. Additionally, weeks before leaving CA on this current trip to the east coast I tried to arrange a factory visit in August when I would be passing through Oregon but I was told they were booked solid until sometime in September.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:52 PM   #32
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Russ, the Japanese Auto Industry broke into the American market at the low end of the spectrum, they brought cheap, well made vehicles to the market. In the beginning this didn't work well for them because No Americans wanted to purchase them...until the gas crisis in the 70's. In order for a new RV manufacturer to pull off what the Japanese Auto Industry did, to force the American Auto Industry to follow, would for there to be a similar crisis in the RV industry. What correlates to the gas crisis for the RV industry, I have no idea.
That's an interesting bit of history. The Korean car maker Kia, however, was not part of the Japanese infusion and made their entry into the US market much more recently. They seem to be doing really well having claimed the J.D. Powers title of "Highest Ranked Mass Market Brand in Initial Quality, 4 Years in a Row". And it is quality we are talking about in this thread. Maybe a Korean company will toss their hat into the American RV market and shake things up. I'm not holding my breath, however.

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Due to the labor costs with building RVs, you would need to set up an RV manufacturer that basically breaks even for many years in order to build a quality RV and gain marketshare at the entry level of RVs. Better be able to fund this 100% on your own, because you wont get investors with that business strategy.
You state that as fact, but I believe you are factually incorrect. Anyone that pays attention to the stock market knows that many businesses run at loss for years when starting up. Tesla is but one example of that. It went public 8 years ago and since then investors have driven up its stock price 2,000%. Meanwhile it still really isn't profitable and it's not alone. Amazon, Yelp, Twitter and Netflix took quarters or years to turn a profit all the while stock prices climbing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/tesl...een-alone.html

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I agree something needs to change, and we know *what* needs to be done for the change. But the guys with the money see no reason to do so.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:47 AM   #33
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I understand a person's frustration when they have problems with their RV's. Refusing to buy the same brand is about as meaningless as you can get. Go ahead and buy brand X, Y or Z and take your chances the same way you'd take your chances with another AF product. There's absolutely no guaranty that any RV from any MFG will be better than the one sitting next to it on a dealers lot.
^^^
This is reality. We still live in a buyer beware world. To believe all should be ''perfect", is just naive.

However it is equally true to expect the product to be manufactured within the "engineered" standards. Initial quality inspections are non intrusive, no disassembly, peek-a-boo type inspection. You can hire a professional for a more forensic inspection... with/upon a signed contract with rights of refusal if the dealer can't/won't fix.

Lemon laws for RV's are inadequate, so who then must be the responsible party?

PS... The boating industry suffers with the same concerns
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by RussOnTheRoad View Post
That's an interesting bit of history. The Korean car maker Kia, however, was not part of the Japanese infusion and made their entry into the US market much more recently. They seem to be doing really well having claimed the J.D. Powers title of "Highest Ranked Mass Market Brand in Initial Quality, 4 Years in a Row". And it is quality we are talking about in this thread. Maybe a Korean company will toss their hat into the American RV market and shake things up. I'm not holding my breath, however.



You state that as fact, but I believe you are factually incorrect. Anyone that pays attention to the stock market knows that many businesses run at loss for years when starting up. Tesla is but one example of that. It went public 8 years ago and since then investors have driven up its stock price 2,000%. Meanwhile it still really isn't profitable and it's not alone. Amazon, Yelp, Twitter and Netflix took quarters or years to turn a profit all the while stock prices climbing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/tesl...een-alone.html

Who cares...you folks are both right because a trailer is a trailer is a trailer.

The sun will rise in the east and set in the west...life will go on.

Travel safely

Coops
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:14 AM   #35
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Russ / Solo,

I agree with both of you.

This is a theory / reality problem. The nearest AF dealer to me is 3500 miles ! I am not downplaying your problems.. I think AF should have sawped you with a new one. We don't have lemon aid laws here in Canada .. you do for cars.. should be extended to RVs..

I have been on RV boards / FB pages for 15 years now I guess..boon docked seriously for 5 years and have learned that for the most part, my repair skills are better on most accounts than a dealer however, there are somethings that I won't / cannot due to me disabilities.

Yes, we are very please with our AF especially if we compare with a SOP. Doublely impressed when we look where we drag this unit and the roads we travel. We are heading off to Tx is a few months to live in it for 1/2 year so ask me again after that

To respond to the other question, one person said (he has been rving forever) specifically in relation to AF, that he would not buy one produced after 2014. Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it...but the quality of all trailers seems to start to slide just before or after that.. we have thought we would get another AF when we went down to Tx but are seriously reconsidering that. ..


I think you will find that older Afs are hard to find...
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:23 PM   #36
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I can’t belive what I am reading...justifying it’s ok to have poor workmanship. Wow. If you bought a new car and the mirror fell off or a screw in the door panel is stripped and and the door panel fell off you folks would be livid calling it a POS.
Or the radio knobs where missed labeled...or the window down button was actually the up button...but hey if it’s trailer it’s ok I can fix it.

So why do you accept poor quality for any trailer especially for the the price you pay with your hard earned money...or get a loan for 10 or 20 years and the trailer lasts 5 years.

Would you buy a new boat,motorcycle and say oh I am handy I can fix it if anything goes wrong.

We as customer just enable and accept this poor quality...there will be no change unless customers says not good enough.

Why would you pay full price for a new product when isn’t perfect or 99%.

Say no to poor quality,..it’s your money.


We as RV owners are so dumb to accept this crap!! Yup... I accept I am to blame as well.

By the way...a trailer is a trailer is a trailer...and as someone said to me...we own the best trailer in a crappy neighbourhood

Coops


BTW...Love your BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY!!!
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #37
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"By the way...a trailer is a trailer is a trailer"


Not even close.. but interesting attitude.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:42 AM   #38
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I'm still waiting for the scathing reviews.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:31 PM   #39
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My wife and I are planning to semi full time when I retire in a year or two and we plan to up size to a bigger TT or fiver.


After owning our Nash and looking at most of the other brands we are absolutely certain we are staying with a Northwoods product.


The quality difference seems night and day between NW products and the other brands I've looked through and the price difference is not large enough to entice me into the flimsier brands.


One brand we haven't looked at is Airstream and they may be the best quality of them all for all I know but, Neither of us care much for their looks so they are out of the running as far as we're concerned.




Personally, I'd be interested in reading some of the "scathing reviews" so I can see what problems owners hae encountered.


Please post links.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:38 PM   #40
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My wife and I are planning to semi full time when I retire in a year or two and we plan to up size to a bigger TT or fiver.


After owning our Nash and looking at most of the other brands we are absolutely certain we are staying with a Northwoods product.


The quality difference seems night and day between NW products and the other brands I've looked through and the price difference is not large enough to entice me into the flimsier brands.


One brand we haven't looked at is Airstream and they may be the best quality of them all for all I know but, Neither of us care much for their looks so they are out of the running as far as we're concerned.




Personally, I'd be interested in reading some of the "scathing reviews" so I can see what problems owners hae encountered.


Please post links.
My wife and I went to the RV show last weekend and was excited to check out the Airstreams having never been inside of one. I left there scratching my head as to what the huge deal was. The prices were so out of line and the interiors look so much nicer online. I don't think the new ones will retain their value like the older ones, which makes for a scary purchase.
Ordering an Arctic Fox 25w this week and hopefully have it for next season. Airstream didn't have a trailer there that that would make me change my mind even if the prices were the same.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:19 PM   #41
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...The quality difference seems night and day between NW products and the other brands I've looked through and the price difference is not large enough to entice me into the flimsier brands.
I wonder what criteria you're using to make your evaluations. Is build quality one of them and if so how do you meaure that?

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.Personally, I'd be interested in reading some of the "scathing reviews" so I can see what problems owners hae encountered.
I think the OP may have chosen language that's a bit too stong, but at the same time it's a mistake to consider one brand to be good when it is peprhaps merely less bad than the others.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:05 PM   #42
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I wonder what criteria you're using to make your evaluations. Is build quality one of them and if so how do you meaure that?



I think the OP may have chosen language that's a bit too stong, but at the same time it's a mistake to consider one brand to be good when it is peprhaps merely less bad than the others.



My measure is based on simple things like press board cabinets and drawers covered with a stick on vinyl "wood look" tape or whatever that product is they use.


Molding that was cut short and didn't quite make it to the floor or ceiling.


Walls that shook when you closed a door solidly.


Outer compartment doors that already had some crews on the hinges pulling loose.


No shocks and axles that really seemed to be on the small side.


Etc. Etc.


There was no area that I thought that any of the other companies met NW build and material quality.
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