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Old 12-09-2007, 06:49 AM   #15
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:

Heated and insulated? Wasn't it you that posted on RV.net that the black tank of a hallmark was uninsulated and hung underneath the rear of the camper? This can not be compared to a fully enclosed heated basement for keeping things working smoothly in below freezing weather. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was indeed me that posted that my 2004 does not have a heated and insulated black tank and yes it is below the floor in the rear tucked inside the camper body.(I was inquiring about skirting that is used on fifth wheel trailers)This position of the tank supports the FACT that a hallmark has a much lower center of gravity and is just one of the many reasons why a hallmark has a lower center of gravity as I have pointed out before. The 2008 models have tanks that are truly insulated and plumed with a heating vent. So, like I said, no advantage there (Even though the thousands of hallmark's sold before this change have been enjoying four season winter camping without a problem anyway.) So it would seem your knowledge and reasoning is out of date as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Your knowledge of Outfitter construction is out of date. Their campers currently use a one piece fiberglass insert in the cabover (to include the underbed storage) and the portion of lower tub that used to be made of wood is now a reinforced fiberglass (excuse me..composite) piece. About the only wood still used in an Outfitter is in the cabinets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Outfitter does not use wood paneling in their walls, and they glue their Filon siding directly to the aluminum sticks? Wouldnt delamination would spread like wild fire, at least I would hope they would use a sub strait, moisture and temperature transfer through the aluminum sticks has to be horrific. Bigger camper with two floors, No composite walls, equals more wood in the Outfitter, although at least Outfitter removed some of the wood with their new bunk.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Yes an Outfitter is going to weigh a little more then a hallmark due to its slightly larger size but 500lbs is a BIG stretch since the materials used to construct 4" of extra sidewall and a extra floor weigh NO WHERE near that much. I could actually lift all of them and I am not exactly the "Incredible Hulk". Now if you are comparing the smallest/lightest hallmark against the largest Outfitter then the 500lb figure might be closer to accurate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it is conceded that indeed an Outfitter weighs more than a hallmark. I believe that Brian, the owner of Outfitter even suggested a "Pepsi Challenge" on RV.net. Did this challenge take place? I have seen a picture at the new Hallmark show room of an Outfitter Apex 9 on the scale coming in at just over 3000lbs. and a 9.6' foot Okanagan hardside on the scale coming in at just over 3200lbs. and a hallmark Cuchara 9.5' foot weighing in at just over 2300lbs.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
No need to distort the facts, there are plenty of Outfitter owners that carry their camper just fine with a gas engine truck (even Toyotas) just like there are hallmark owners with diesel trucks. So the gas/diesel thing is really a moot point and simply owner preference. I have an F350 since I didn't want to do ANY suspension mods to be able to carry the load (plus tow 7000+lbs of trailer and Bronco) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Steve didnt you install F550 coils on your truck? Is that not a suspension mod?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Most expensive does NOT always go hand-in-hand with best. Interesting that you assert the cost premium of the hallmark is due to the materials used in construction, since hallmarks were costing more even when they were simply stick built from wood. Even back in 2004 (WELL before any composites (?) or carbon fiber) when I priced them, a hallmark cost more then an Outfitter </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You get what you pay for Steve, even when you try to tell yourself that it isn't true. Hallmark has always built the best pop-up available and my 2004 is a testament to this. As I have stated before-Customer service is very important to me- Hallmark services what they sell- even my 2004.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:40 AM   #16
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wildcamper:
Hi Steve,

Offer still stands, I'll even split the gas cost with you and still buy you lunch. Oh, and here is a link to the pic's on my web site you were looking for. I'm sure you will learn a lot.

Link:
hallmark composite construction </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well unfortunately I am still a working stiff so besides the fuel there is also the week off from work I would need to do this that I couldn't use for a more enjoyable vacation.

The pics don't really help your case. They clearly show that while it might be wood reinforced in some locations, the outer wall is still simply a fiberglass shell as I have been stating and a long way from the fully self supporting structure of the ER.

As I have said before your fiberglass wall is nice but it is misleading of your advertising to let people think it is the same as the much more expensive ER's.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:52 AM   #17
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wildcamper:
By the way, what do you think Earthroamer screws their cabinets to? About the only difference is that Earthroamer builds a ship in a bottle and we build the bottle around the ship. Anyway, if you come out I will show you the whole process and you will have a better understanding of composite construction. Don't worry about the options you have in your Outfitter, I have all those options and more in a showroom model. You can even see the heated and insulated tanks and all the new fancy skylights that are possible in carbon roof. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The ER's composite walls are in fact a fully self supporting structure with the reinforced mounting points of interior items encased within it. While yours (no matter how you try to spin it) are really nothing more then an old-school, wooden-stick wall camper with a nice fiberglass outer covering.

Somehow I doubt that you have a similarly-equipped camper in stock that has all the features of mine. Care to compare options line by line?

As for your insulated and duct-heated holding tanks why doesn't your site give any explanation of them?

A "fancy skylight" isn't something that you can only get with a carbon fiber roof and isn't even a "new" feature. They have been incorporated in other brands roofs (both wood and aluminum) for many years.
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:39 PM   #18
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Steve, I can argue with you till the cows come home. And as much as you would like a earthroamer not be like a hallmark, the fact still remains that hallmark builds the most technologically advanced pop-up on the market.

Offer still stands. I look forward to meeting you at some point and teaching you the finer things to look for in RV construction.

Go ahead Steve, give me an options list and I will match it and add. Should be interesting.

Yes, thank you for pointing out the Heki vent, NO it is not new, and no it has not been done on a soft side pop-up before. It is usually installed on hard side campers. Find me a picture besides mine.
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Old 12-14-2007, 02:17 PM   #19
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:

Heated and insulated? Wasn't it you that posted on RV.net that the black tank of a hallmark was uninsulated and hung underneath the rear of the camper? This can not be compared to a fully enclosed heated basement for keeping things working smoothly in below freezing weather. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was indeed me that posted that my 2004 does not have a heated and insulated black tank and yes it is below the floor in the rear tucked inside the camper body.(I was inquiring about skirting that is used on fifth wheel trailers)This position of the tank supports the FACT that a hallmark has a much lower center of gravity and is just one of the many reasons why a hallmark has a lower center of gravity as I have pointed out before. The 2008 models have tanks that are truly insulated and plumed with a heating vent. So, like I said, no advantage there (Even though the thousands of hallmark's sold before this change have been enjoying four season winter camping without a problem anyway.) So it would seem your knowledge and reasoning is out of date as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I might be but not by as much (or as misleading) as you were. It seems that hallmark is pretty shy about posting all their current upgrades to their site for people (customers) to see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:
Your knowledge of Outfitter construction is out of date. Their campers currently use a one piece fiberglass insert in the cabover (to include the underbed storage) and the portion of lower tub that used to be made of wood is now a reinforced fiberglass (excuse me..composite) piece. About the only wood still used in an Outfitter is in the cabinets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Outfitter does not use wood paneling in their walls, and they glue their Filon siding directly to the aluminum sticks? Wouldnt delamination would spread like wild fire, at least I would hope they would use a sub strait, moisture and temperature transfer through the aluminum sticks has to be horrific. Bigger camper with two floors, No composite walls, equals more wood in the Outfitter, although at least Outfitter removed some of the wood with their new bunk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was referring to wood as a structural member. Which unlike hallmark, Outfitter has pretty much succeeded in eliminating. Last I checked (and unless someone has changed the rules of physics) aluminum allows NO moisture penetration. Your attempt at a misleading statement is like the one on hallmarks site touting their non-use of glue in their construction but the fact of the matter is that they use more "glue" then almost any camper since those fiberglass panels are saturated with "glue" and if done improperly are subject to delamination as well.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:
Yes an Outfitter is going to weigh a little more then a hallmark due to its slightly larger size but 500lbs is a BIG stretch since the materials used to construct 4" of extra sidewall and a extra floor weigh NO WHERE near that much. I could actually lift all of them and I am not exactly the "Incredible Hulk". Now if you are comparing the smallest/lightest hallmark against the largest Outfitter then the 500lb figure might be closer to accurate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it is conceded that indeed an Outfitter weighs more than a hallmark. I believe that Brian, the owner of Outfitter even suggested a "Pepsi Challenge" on RV.net. Did this challenge take place? I have seen a picture at the new Hallmark show room of an Outfitter Apex 9 on the scale coming in at just over 3000lbs. and a 9.6' foot Okanagan hardside on the scale coming in at just over 3200lbs. and a hallmark Cuchara 9.5' foot weighing in at just over 2300lbs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those pictures, while making for a nice sales tool, are in reality totally meaningless, since there is no way to know what options (if any) were installed in those campers. I believe the point Brian was trying to make about weight with the Pepsi challenge (which I notice hallmark didn't take him up on) was that despite hallmarks claims either brand is within a couple of hundred pounds of each other when optioned the same. As for myself, I have never claimed my Outfitter was "light", I simply hold that it is "lighter" and has a lower COG then a comparably equipped/optioned hardside would be. I do feel the weight given for the above Outfitter is suspect since (while I never weighed mine) someone I know has weighed their similar model when fully loaded for a trip and including themselves, the total load on their truck was 3500lbs. Since it is a good rule of thumb that you will add approx 1000lbs to a camper when ready-to-go it would seem that the correct dry weight would be in the 2500lb range for a well optioned Apex. So if the figures are correct a 200lb difference is pretty much a moot point, since it won't allow a smaller truck or require a larger truck for one-vs-the-other. By the way, it's an Apex 9.5.

*** On edit - I rechecked the weight the other owner listed and it was 3100lbs not 3500lbs, giving a revised ballpark figure of 2100lbs dry ******
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:
No need to distort the facts, there are plenty of Outfitter owners that carry their camper just fine with a gas engine truck (even Toyotas) just like there are hallmark owners with diesel trucks. So the gas/diesel thing is really a moot point and simply owner preference. I have an F350 since I didn't want to do ANY suspension mods to be able to carry the load (plus tow 7000+lbs of trailer and Bronco) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Steve didnt you install F550 coils on your truck? Is that not a suspension mod? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The F550 coils are on the front of my truck and have nothing to do with supporting the campers load. They were installed to support the 300+lbs extra that my bumper/winch combo adds there.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:
Most expensive does NOT always go hand-in-hand with best. Interesting that you assert the cost premium of the hallmark is due to the materials used in construction, since hallmarks were costing more even when they were simply stick built from wood. Even back in 2004 (WELL before any composites (?) or carbon fiber) when I priced them, a hallmark cost more then an Outfitter </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You get what you pay for Steve, even when you try to tell yourself that it isn't true. Hallmark has always built the best pop-up available and my 2004 is a testament to this. As I have stated before-Customer service is very important to me- Hallmark services what they sell- even my 2004. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well I glad you think your money was well spent (though I notice you didn't like them enough to pay that new price penalty) but it seems to me that the "best pop-up available" would have been built with more care, so that the rubber roof wasn't bubbling up already at only 3 years old (as you yourself post here). Personally I wouldn't go bragging that my 3 yo camper (with a roof problem) was a testament to hallmark's greatness if I was you. Outfitter puts in writing one of the best warranties in the business, with a lifetime structural warranty to the original owner. They will also help subsequent owners with problems if any come up, so despite your trying to make it seem as if only hallmark supports their product, Outfitter owners (new AND used) have no problems getting service of any kind.

Again I suggest that hallmark try selling their campers on their own merits and leave the sleazy/misleading tactics to the politicians. A web site, minus the misleading innuendo, that CLEARLY shows the construction details and tank locations would be a good step in this direction and allow potential customers to make up their own minds as to which they prefer.

**edited for formating
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Old 12-14-2007, 02:48 PM   #20
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I will jaw with you more tommorrow, but one mod you post that is not possible. Is the Digital thermostat that can control a polar cub. Not possible, better think about this statement.

Everything else, not a problem and in stock. Sands the two 20lb. tanks.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">2007 Outfitter Apex 9.5
Extended cabover bed (full queen)
Tundra 12VDC fridge with internal venting (no exterior vents)
Stove/oven
20K furnace
Polar Cub A/C, w/heat strip
Atwood XT 6gal water heater (gas/electric)
Nature Pure water filter
Shureflo Extreme series Smart Sensor water pump
Wall mounted digital thermostat, controlling furnace,A/C,heat strip
(2) 20lb LP tanks on slide out tray (replaced stock single 40lb tank)
Custom LP cabinet with drawer and pantry added
Cassette toilet (plumbed to TC water supply)
Extra outside storage compartment
Outside shower
Water inlets behind locking door
270W of solar
Solar Boost 2000e controller
Xantrex Prosine 2KW inverter
(4) Lifeline AGM batteries
10' side crank out awning
Will get rear awning (new style) once development is finalized
(2) per side scare lights
(2) rear porch lights
Tan Weblon (heavier duty) interior softwall
Oversized overhead cabinet on drivers side
Additional overhead cabinet on pass side
(2) Shureflo Platinum Series roof vents
Roof storage pod
Electric jacks (mounted 4" higher) w/6" leg extensions for added off-road
clearance
Microwave
40gal water tank
Electric lift for roof
Extra drawers instead of stereo
Removable shore power cord
Roof racks
Extra 120V/12V power outlets throughout TC
(2) Honda 2000i's w/homemade parallel cord

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</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please, lets talk truth and not fiction. Whole reason I have to respond.
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Old 12-14-2007, 02:56 PM   #21
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I have been called many things but never a politican- That is an interesting choice of words- for which I have seen you use before.

I purchased a 2004 model because -I can- frankly it should not concern you what year model I purchase. I sleep very well at night- with my choice.

Can you provide a similar customer service experience? It is really nice to know that Hallmark will stand behind it's work even if you are not the original owner.

I do not fault anyone or any manufacture for problems with a glue-on rubber roof- as this is inherent to the design and application (glue does not last forever and neither does rubber) that is why they make repair kits and roof coating.

I'm a firm believer in Hallmark as they have treated me with diginty and respect. I understand that you are firm supporter and a person who is willing (and perhaps compensated?) to provide your camper as a model for potential customers in California. It also is interesting that Mr. Ward recently commented in an interview with TCM's (Truck Camper Magazine) Gordon White last August

"While I talked to Bob in the front office later in the day, a potential customer called from California. Bob gave him the name and phone number of a nearby Outfitter owner for the potential customer to visit. Bob then told me that this Outfitter owner had sold about eighty Outfitters over the years."...

Here is a link for the complete interview
http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/index.php?option=com...iew&id=244&Itemid=34


I'm not really sure you should throw stones-
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Old 12-14-2007, 08:25 PM   #22
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wildcamper:
I will jaw with you more tommorrow, but one mod you post that is not possible. Is the Digital thermostat that can control a polar cub. Not possible, better think about this statement.

Everything else, not a problem and in stock. Sands the two 20lb. tanks.


Please, lets talk truth and not fiction. Whole reason I have to respond. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Might want to check your facts a little better before you call someone a liar. Coleman makes a version of this thermostat for a single zone and it WILL IN FACT control a Polar Cub with a heat strip as well as the LP furnace. Since it doesn't come as a package deal you need to order the A/C unit minus plenum, the correct interior plenum (with heat strip) and the thermostat. I would think that it shouldn't be all that hard to figure out for a company that claims they <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wildcamper: "build the most technologically advanced pop-up on the market" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>. At least once they learn how to use another technologically advanced thing called the Internet to do a product search.

Here is a pic of it installed in my current camper and I had it on my last camper as well.

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Old 12-14-2007, 09:52 PM   #23
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
I have been called many things but never a politican- That is an interesting choice of words- for which I have seen you use before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I suggested in a previous post on RV.net you should pay a little more attention to detail before replying. Even a not-very-careful reread will show that I DIDN'T call YOU anything, I merely suggested that hallmark might want to lay off the smear tactics. Now if your above statement is meant to be taken literally and you truly feel I called YOU a politician then it would appear that you are the owner of hallmark since that is the only way my words could be construed as applying to you personally. It would go a long way towards explaining your rabidly pro-hallmark stance as well. I have used the same turn of phrase before (with both times being aimed at the company and not an individual) since I feel it is very apropos to the subject at hand. Is there some problem with my reuse of my own words? Do I need to report myself..to me, for plagiarism?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
Can you provide a similar customer service experience? It is really nice to know that Hallmark will stand behind it's work even if you are not the original owner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since it wasn't me and I don't have the owners permission I am not free to post other peoples issues or results but I know enough to be confident that ANY issue I (or another owner) has will be taken care of.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
I do not fault anyone or any manufacture for problems with a glue-on rubber roof- as this is inherent to the design and application (glue does not last forever and neither does rubber) that is why they make repair kits and roof coating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True but 3 years is a VERY short time to have a problem and is indicative of sloppy assembly. My previous Bounder had a rubber roof and even after almost 10 years in the blistering desert sun was in as good a shape (albeit slightly chalked) as when it was installed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
I'm a firm believer in Hallmark as they have treated me with diginty and respect. I understand that you are firm supporter and a person who is willing (and perhaps compensated?) to provide your camper as a model for potential customers in California. It also is interesting that Mr. Ward recently commented in an interview with TCM's (Truck Camper Magazine) Gordon White last August

"While I talked to Bob in the front office later in the day, a potential customer called from California. Bob gave him the name and phone number of a nearby Outfitter owner for the potential customer to visit. Bob then told me that this Outfitter owner had sold about eighty Outfitters over the years."...

Here is a link for the complete interview
http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/index.php?option=com...iew&id=244&Itemid=34


I'm not really sure you should throw stones- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry to disappoint but despite your innuendo and clumsy attempt to impugn my character, that is a different guy and he lives in San Diego. He is in fact the owner that showed me his camper when we were deciding what to buy. AFAIK he also doesn't post on (or even monitor) these boards. While I don't know his current arraignment with Outfitter, I was aware at the time that he was being compensated for showing us his camper but even so he was totally honest about both its' good and bad points, something NO salesman would do.

Since Outfitter has no dealers (as you well know) I see nothing wrong with an owner being compensated for their time if they agree to show off their camper to a perspective buyer (it runs at least a couple hours), since the compensation is for their time and NOT contingent on a camper being sold. I HIGHLY doubt owners of ANY other brands would turn this arraignment down if it was offered to them. To date I haven't received anything for the times I have shown mine but then I haven't asked for it either, though if I was being asked to do it as often as the owner in the article I'm sure I would have. Truth be told I don't show my camper all that much since I live in the middle-of-no-where. I am usually contacted by people AFTER they have made up their mind to purchase for more info on the options/mods I had done to mine.

Since we are on the subject you brought up, how much free work did you get done in exchange for your loyal support? Seems pretty strong and vocal for just a free re-caulk job on a used camper. Though the source of your loyalty becomes pretty apparent if, as your comments at the beginning of your reply seem to assert, you are indeed the owner of hallmark.
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:27 PM   #24
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Well I guess we could go back and forth on the roof- but I wont. Not an innendo just an observation TCM commented on a Outfitter owner in California- and you live in California and offer demos. I believe if you where paid for your demo- then you would be considered an agent of the company.

As I have stated before, Hallmark provides some of the best products and customer service in the industry. I apperciate the fact that I'm not a number or a serial number, but a customer that purchased one of their products. If the product has a warranty issue then they will take care of it. I will always carry the water for a company that supports their customers.

Details- Does this look familar? I believe this is from your owners group( by the way when did Outfitter start selling campers in syria)?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Steve_in_29
Owner-Site Expert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are pretty much always ready to show our camper to interested parties, though we are kind of out in the middle of nowhere (last gas for 120 miles) in Twentynine Palms, CA.

Shoot me a PM or e-mail to set something up.

_________________
2007 Apex9.5
Heavily optioned & mod'd/270W solar/Solar Boost 2000e/4 AGMs/dual H2000i's/2KW Prosine/TorkLifts/Quick Loads/dual 20lb LP/electric roof

2007 Ford F350
Highline/SRW/SC/LB/4x4/6.0/auto (no airbags or other suspension mods needed)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Edit

Phew I certainly would not want to be in same ranks as most of the politicans today. My mis-read and my apologies.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:04 PM   #25
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:
Though the source of your loyalty becomes pretty apparent if, as your comments at the beginning of your reply seem to assert, you are indeed the owner of hallmark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to help me with this one?? Did you perhaps forget the letter A ??

"Hello Camper69

I do own a Hallmark camper. My wife and I purchased a very clean 2004 Cuchara from a local RV Dealer".......


I know it is all in the details
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:58 AM   #26
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
Well I guess we could go back and forth on the roof- but I wont. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Especially since while it does show they stand behind their product, it's hard to spin them offering to fix a manufacturing defect as an endorsement of their quality. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
Not an innendo just an observation TCM commented on a Outfitter owner in California- and you live in California and offer demos. I believe if you where paid for your demo- then you would be considered an agent of the company. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You might want to look up the meaning of "innuendo" before you state you didn't mean it. Those pesky details again.

Well sorry to bust your bubble (and attempt at deductive reasoning) but I'm not the only Outfitter owner in CA. As I already explained the guy Bob mentioned in TCM lives in San Diego and doesn't even get on these forums.

So let me get this straight, if you spent several hours of your time showing off your camper and, irregardless of whether the person bought a camper, hallmark offered to give you $50 as compensation for your time, you feel that you would then be an agent (salesman?) of hallmark and subsequently unable to give an unbiased appraisal of their campers from then on? Seems someone places a rather low value on their integrity.

Utilizing your same logic, how is it that "you" accepting free repairs on your camper is any different in your mind then someone being compensated for their time for showing their camper? You didn't start posting about the how great hallmark was until after they resealed your roof for free ($100ish value), while Outfitter owners such as myself have long been extolling their virtues even without any compensation being offered, so who is the real agent here?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
As I have stated before, Hallmark provides some of the best products and customer service in the industry. I apperciate the fact that I'm not a number or a serial number, but a customer that purchased one of their products. If the product has a warranty issue then they will take care of it. I will always carry the water for a company that supports their customers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well I'm glad that you like your camper so much that you feel the need to post unsolicited(?) comments about how great they are (though the word "advertisement" does spring to mind). It makes one wonder what happened to give you such a rabid anti-Outfitter stance, especially since you don't mention any experience, or even contact, with them in any of your posts. What makes you assume that Outfitter's service is any different then hallmarks? Especially in light of the fact that of the two companies stated warranties, Outfitter's is the better one.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
Details- Does this look familar? I believe this is from your owners group( by the way when did Outfitter start selling campers in syria)?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Steve_in_29
Owner-Site Expert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are pretty much always ready to show our camper to interested parties, though we are kind of out in the middle of nowhere (last gas for 120 miles) in Twentynine Palms, CA.

Shoot me a PM or e-mail to set something up.

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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes that is my post from Outfitter's "Owners Group" forum, so what's your point? If you noticed there are several other owners that make the same offer on that thread. I enjoy showing off my camper, meeting new people and discussing campers in general so what's the problem.

You seem to love your camper so much that I doubt you wouldn't post the same offer if hallmark had the same kind of forum.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
Edit

Phew I certainly would not want to be in same ranks as most of the politicans today. My mis-read and my apologies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Strange you had to add this as an after thought.
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:37 AM   #27
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Happy Holidays Steve,

Again, you are always welcome at hallmark mfg.

I'm sure Brad and his camper will be fine as his rubber roof problem is cosmetic and not structural. This is the beauty of our new carbon fiber roof. It's perfect every time.

I'm also sure that if I got to see your camper I could find defects to pick on as well. We shall leave that until you visit, or our paths cross.

Oh, and I'm doing a piece on our heated and insulated holding tanks. You'll have to keep any eye out for that on our web site. They work very nicely.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:57 PM   #28
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trails2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_in_29:
Though the source of your loyalty becomes pretty apparent if, as your comments at the beginning of your reply seem to assert, you are indeed the owner of hallmark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to help me with this one?? Did you perhaps forget the letter A ??

"Hello Camper69

I do own a Hallmark camper. My wife and I purchased a very clean 2004 Cuchara from a local RV Dealer".......


I know it is all in the details </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I forgot nothing and said exactly what I meant. If you carefully reread the part of my post concerning your taking my comments about hallmark personally you should see what I was getting at. As you say it's all in the details and once again you should pay more attention to them.
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