Mexican

[Lynnvt]

I don't live in an area where there are lots of immigrants but I am a first and a half generation American.
First I would ask you to consider how US immigrants live in other countries. Many do learn to speak the language but they often create their own English speaking community and schools. If they have the numbers, they would be changing the country they were in as well. It's what an individual is comfortable with. Is it right or wrong, I don't know. If they can get along without speaking the native language, I guess it doesn't matter. It must be a disadvantage for them.
From another perspective my father was a Finnish immigrant and my maternal grandparents were Finnish immigrants. Many of the Finns who immigrated so wanted to be assimilated that they would not teach their children Finnish. Many of these 1st generation Americans lost part of their heritage. I was fortunate that we spoke Finnish at home so I did learn the language.
I am just trying to point out that there is usually more than one perspective to consider.

[2Roadrunners]

Hey Lynn.........Connecticut born and raised, immigrated to Canada in 1963 (not to avoid military service, I did eight years U.S.N.). I hurried to learn French and it is my daily language and always has been. Even a friend of mine from Cleveland and I speak French together.

I say: When you are in Rome....and you know the rest. You live in a region or country in which a language other than yours is spoken...learn it as best as possible.

We have Mexican workers coming up here yearly to work on the farms, and believe me...they do. Why so many Mexicans? When my generation was younger, school kids picked strawberries on Orléans Island and all around here to pay their school year. Today the kids are too lazy, too spoiled and will not ''degrade'' themselves to pick on farms.

My .02¢ worth.

[Camping Dutchman]

"Today the kids are too lazy, too spoiled and will not ''degrade'' themselves to pick on farms. "

EXACTLY

[mick]

Uh, sir, you will find on the rv forums, 10-14 bucks an hours is slave wages. Would you work for that? That happens to be the poverty level.

And your post insinuates that all should work for poverty wages. Wake up this is 2005 , not 1932!

[Camping Dutchman]

10-14 is slave wages??? How much should a unskilled laborer make?? If it was 1932 we would pay that for the whole day!

[Lonnie]

If it was 1932, you would be lucky to get that for the whole week. In the early 40's, I worked as a farm hand for $5 a week - plus room and board.

[Sissy7378]

Let me tell you in Florida it is hard to go anywhere and not hear Spanish being spoken. One Sunday I was in Wal-Mart in St. Cloud, FL (close to Orlando) and thought I was lost somewhere in Mexico. Man I cannot imagine what Miami must be like these days. It was the same in AZ when I was there a couple years ago and the signs on the highway going towards Mexico are in Spanish and English. Makes me wonder why they don't learn English as when I am in a foreign country signs are not in English for my use, I figure out their language as best I can.

[mick]

12 bucks a hour , 40 hours, 480 week, taxes take 35 percent or 160 a week , leaving 320 a week take home or 1300 a month or 15600 a year. Or do you suggest that we have to work 50=70 hours a week to survive? Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. Try having to live on that in a metro area.

[mamaloya]

12 bucks an hour is good money. There must be a few rich snobs here on this board if they think otherwise. Minimum wage is like 5.40/hr. When I was a secretary almost ten years ago I made $10 and thought that was great and I was raising 2 kids alone at the time.

When dh was pastoring a church at the mouth of the Mississippi River, he made $600/month. Of course we lived in the church parsonage, so had no rent. He had to be bivocational (a term used for pastors who don't get enough pay as pastor, so need a second job to survive, quite common). He could not find a job in that area paying $10/hr. $8/hr was the best he could get.

As for taxes, most work cash under the table, so no taxes are taken out. And I don't know where you get the 35% figure from. If you make less than like $25K, you don't even pay taxes if you have dependents. They took a little bit of state taxes out of my check and no federal. Well, they took a little federal if I happened to work overtime. Then, when I filed my taxes, I actually got money back through the "earned income credit". It was like $3K one year. So they do not get 35% taken out. It is more like 5% if that depending on your state. Federal is like 0 if you have dependents.

The only time we ever had 35% taken out of our pay was when dh was selling insurance and we made 6 figures a year (yes our finances have swung quite a pendulum). Then, by the time we took out all of our deductions, we got a lot of it back. You know mortgage interest, business expenses, etc. etc.

In New Orleans, where I am originally from and lost everything we owned btw, McDs used to pay like $6/hr. Now with the labor shortage and trying to lure people back, the fast food restaurants are offering 8-10. It is working. I don't know where you live that 12 is slave wages, but everywhere I have lived that is great money.

The problem is is that we are a nation of spoiled prima donnas (to use someone elses term). We refuse to live below a certain level. I know, dh and I were there. We had to have the big house, 2 new cars, private schools for our kids, etc. We thought that BASE living expenses were $3k and that was w/o entertainment and clothing. We spent 1K on our home, 1k on cars and insurance, and 1K on groceries and utilities. Well, when we went into the ministry, we found out how little one needed. We had one 10yo van, never ate out, wore hand me down clothes, etc.

Americans definition of NEED is way beyond what it actually is. You don't NEED 2 new cars or even 2 used ones for that matter. If mama stays home with the kiddos, 1 will do fine. You don't need to spend $35 on a pair of pants for little timmy. WM sells perfectly fine ones for $5. You can get them cheaper if you buy them off season clearanced out. Name brands can be bought at thrift stores if you are a brand snob.

You don't NEED a 5 bedroom house when you have only 1-2 kids. We are currently in a 3 bedroom with 5. We were once in a 2 bedroom with 2 kids. Keeping up with the Jones' has become our national pasttime. Our nation wants to start where our parents left off. Hey, dad worked 30 years to get what he has. My kids don't get things handed to them, they earn them.

dh is an army chaplain now. He makes about 36K a year. Most people would balk at that amt. We live quite well on that. He drives a 94 toyota pickup that he bought a couple months ago for $1500. Sure, we could have bought new, but it would be a waste for him to drive to the chapel and back around the corner. Our family van is a 96 Astro. We paid cash for that this summer and it serves us well. We could buy a new or newer one, but why? This one is perfectly fine, it has a few nicks and dings from the kids, but if I bought a new one, I would ring their necks if they spilled something or ran into it on their bike.

We did buy a new popup. Paid cash for it. We had been wanting one for years, did the research, started looking for one 3 years ago. finally got the right deal and took it.

This leads me to another problem with Americans. They are a microwave society. They want what they want and they want it NOW!!! Why should I wait for that beamer? I will just get it on credit and pay for it the next 10 years. Why wait for that dream cruise, just put it on Visa? Why wait for that rolex watch (which no one needs a $10K watch), just get store credit? Has anyone here heard of EARNING something? Waiting until you actually deserve it? You don't DESERVE anything until you have worked for it. When we take our vacation in Feb, we will pay cash for it and have earned it. We do not put vacations on credit. We don't even have a credit card.

Some would say that we are poor, but I think we are quite wealthy. We have 5 kids, but live quite nicely. Even on the $600/ month salary, we never lacked any NEED. We even went to WDW. We used tickets from better times that had days left on them. Camped at FW and cooked most of our food while there. How dreadful it would feel to go on a cruise knowing that I had years of payments ahead. How sad for someone living paycheck to paycheck feeling as though they never have enough. When will people learn to live within their means and be happy with what they have. NEED is not a relative term. You don't NEED the desires of your heart.

My children are learning the value of a buck. They do chores. Even my dd2 does chores. She sets the table and puts the little wastebaskets back after dd4 has brought them to the kitchen and ds6 has emptied them. ds6 takes the bag out to the can and puts it in. It is very hard for him as the outside can is over his head, but he does it and then beams with pride at a job well done. He did it. And for free. They do not get an allowance. They are a part of a family and we work together to keep the house running. If they want money, I can find extras for them to do, like cleaning the storage shed, or washing the patio. But they know that they don't NEED money at their age, they have everything they need and a lot of what they want.

We are a quite rich family indeed.

Oh, and the mexicans could not find work here if we were willing to do the jobs. How is it that the unemployment rate is at almost 10% most of the time yet all these illegals can find work huh. It is not that they can't find work, it is that they can't find a job they are willing to do.

[mamaloya]

Wow, sorry that was such a long post, I just got a few of my buttons pushed.

And yes, I know this had gotten way off topic.

[53 Merc]

Mamaloya, you said it right. My buttons have been pushed a long time with the whining about pay rates.
We looked at a job at McD's as an opportunity. I worked many a day (12 to 14 hrs) for $1.10 per hour.

[Jumbo Jet]

It is good to see people that earn their way.

Trouble is, with all those kids, I am having to pay some of your taxes. I am sure you might not see it that way. Hey, all I can say is I am glad I can help you out there!

[mamaloya]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumbo Jet:
It is good to see people that earn their way.

Trouble is, with all those kids, I am having to pay some of your taxes. I am sure you might not see it that way. Hey, all I can say is I am glad I can help you out there! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How are you paying some of my taxes? We pay taxes. We don't use some of the services that taxes pay for though. I homeschool, so we don't use the money from taxes for that. We don't get public assistance. Everytime I buy food or clothing for my kids, I pay taxes for sure. As much food and clothing as we buy, I guarantee I am paying a LOT of taxes.

You may not have intended to, but that remark was taken as not nice. It is hard to read someones tone on the internet. I resent people who have many children and can't afford them, but we pay for and care for our children on our own. I stay home and pinch pennies. As I mentioned, I even homeschool, so my kids are not a burden there either.

I think big families are wonderful. No one in our family will ever be in need as we will be there for one another. Most of my friends have at least 4 kids and homeschool as well. A lot of them own campers as well, btw. We always meet large families who homeschool when we are camping.

OK, now we are way off topic. This has gone from a joke about mexicans, to complaining about mexicans, to defending mexicans, to complaining about spoiled americans, to now discussing large families.

If anyone would like to discuss large families, feel free to start a topic in the general discussion forum. I am forced to defend our decision to have a large family and to homeschool all the time. I am willing to discuss this topic nicely and openly with anyone who would like to listen.

[CyberVet65]

Uh, folks?
This is supposed to be a forum for humor.
Let's take this to another forum, OK?
Chet