Anchorage trying to outlaw parking lot use

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Johnitis

"Our lifestyle" is to support the world's largest retailer in wiping out everything that's Mom and Pop in the country? No thanks.

I have posted that I regularly drive past a store that treats me poorly to shop at one that treats me well.

When I do this, I get as many people responding that say I am crazy as those who support the idea.

I have posted that I am willing to pay a bit more, to get a local product, or a US manufactured item, or what not. I am not unwilling to buy imports, but significantly less willing.

I also get told I am crazy for this. Regular responses include that if locals or the US wants to be competitive they should match the price. (which is not always possible or fair)

I do not bash Walmart for doing what they do, or selling what they sell. They simply appeal to a shopper who does not agree with my points made above. They are selling to, and appealing to, a need in the market. If they did not, someone else would.

The death of the Mom and Pop shop is not caused by Walmart, or Home Depot. The death was already in the works. Walmart and stores like it are just filling the void.

There was always a market for their products. There was Woolworths, Kressgies (sp?), K mart, and then Walmart. A certain percentage of the population shopped there.

But, less and less mom and pop shops are a result of less and less mom and pop shoppers willing to pay more, with less selection. I believe this is a chicken and egg argument.

There are still some havens left for mom and pop shops, and their shoppers. They are simply an ever decreasing portion of society.

As far as some policies that might get or expand their shopper base to new markets, I believe that policies like overnight parking is one. I believe the average RV owner, is also more likely a mom and pop kind of shopper. They are as likely as not a bit older, a bit more dollar aware than many. While not generally willing to throw money away for naught, they are also willing to pay a bit more for quality, and are likely more aware of what quality is. (You often get what you pay for, and if you pay for cheap, you get cheap)

I believe that the overnight parking thing is a thought to get people into the lot who may not actually shop there otherwise. It gets people with means to enter their store early when there are less shoppers, to buy supplies when without this policy, those people are less likely to go there at all. It is simply good marketing, if it works. I suspect if it did not work, they would end the policy.

I also believe that other people, who do not own a Walmart, have no business saying what they can or cannot do, or who they should or should not offer services to, in their effort to sell their products.

I think of the overnight parking as a nice service, that I might take advantage of some day. I never have yet. But it is also a service that if I used, would entice me to shop in that store, where I would be less likely to go otherwise. So, for me, it would be a marketing feature.

I am quite sure it is not a service that is designed to hasten the downfall of our society, nor a ploy to attract criminals and those who are destined to have gun battles with police, or shoving matches with store employees in the wash room.

I am also quite sure that local campground owners (or other busybodies) who are trying to stick their noses into the activities in the parking lots at Walmart after they close are much more of a distraction and are more likely to hasten the downfall of our society than store owners of any type who are looking to sell their wares...

[dwertz]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I also believe that other people, who do not own a Walmart, have no business saying what they can or cannot do, or who they should or should not offer services to, in their effort to sell their products.

Well said!

[Johnitis]

So, one shouldn't make comments about the detriments of cancer because they don't have it? Another business shouldn't complain about another's unethical practices? People shouldn't have a comment about how an immutable giant impacts their own community unless they own a Walmart?

The impact that Walmart has had on communities and local business has been quite well documented, and well evidenced in our travels. We have seen communities pre and post Walmart. Some communities are now starting to prohibit them or limit their size. Walmart even decimated those small 5 & 10's you mentioned when it took on what the mall had not eaten of small downtowns years ago, and eventually took on the malls themselves. The terms "walmarted" and "walmarting" have entered the lexicon to describe their maneuverings. Walmart doesn't sell quality products, nor do they have to because they are often the only game in town.

You are right, it is a marketing ploy, and it works so well that you have people planning around so-called "free" camping that will ultimately cost them the same thing as the campground with hookups an exit away.

Originally Posted by KSagal

I have posted that I regularly drive past a store that treats me poorly to shop at one that treats me well...
If they did not, someone else would...

The death of the Mom and Pop shop is not caused by Walmart, or Home Depot. The death was already in the works. Walmart and stores like it are just filling the void.

There was always a market for their products. There was Woolworths, Kressgies (sp?), K mart, and then Walmart. A certain percentage of the population shopped there.

But, less and less mom and pop shops are a result of less and less mom and pop shoppers willing to pay more, with less selection. I believe this is a chicken and egg argument.

There are still some havens left for mom and pop shops, and their shoppers. They are simply an ever decreasing portion of society.

I believe the average RV owner, is also more likely a mom and pop kind of shopper. They are as likely as not a bit older, a bit more dollar aware than many. While not generally willing to throw money away for naught, they are also willing to pay a bit more for quality, and are likely more aware of what quality is. (You often get what you pay for, and if you pay for cheap, you get cheap)
...
I believe that the overnight parking thing is a thought to get people into the lot who may not actually shop there otherwise. ...

I also believe that other people, who do not own a Walmart, have no business saying what they can or cannot do, or who they should or should not offer services to, in their effort to sell their products....

I am also quite sure that local campground owners (or other busybodies) who are trying to stick their noses into the activities in the parking lots at Walmart after they close are much more of a distraction and are more likely to hasten the downfall of our society than store owners of any type who are looking to sell their wares...

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by JeffAZ

When I am traveling to a far destination, and need to stop overnight just to get some sleep, I will use Walmarts, casinos, etc. After a few hours I am on my way again. If at a Walmart I will usually visit the store briefly and purchase something I forgot to bring.


But I have often wondered why real commercial campgrounds don't offer a quick over-night rate for travelers of $10 or so. People who won't even bother to hook up utilities, just have a safe place to sleep for the night, and be gone early in the morning? Have a designated level parking area dedicated to that segment, quick and easy check-in. Don't need the expense of installing the utilities, just a parking space.

Going to a Wal*Mart for a quick overnight stay usually costs us far more than $10!! DW ALWAYS finds something we need, plus there are restaurants nearby to go to! On stay in Redding a few years ago cost us over $100 in purchases and restaurant tab. Now Redding passed an ordinance against it so we no longer spend our money there.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by 1bigmess

Another Wal-Mart thread careening downhill.

Actually the OP posted about it being anywhere in Anchorage, then others joined in posting and turned it that way.

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by KSagal

There was always a market for their products. There was Woolworths, Kressgies (sp?), K mart, and then Walmart. A certain percentage of the population shopped there.

That would be "Kresge's". Trust me, I know. Which eventually morphed into Kmart.

Roger

[BobGed]

Originally Posted by 0rion

just put a 12 hour limit on it.....problem solved and everyone is happy. Wal Mart isn't meant to be a destination but a layover spot...if you can't be back on the road in 12 hours you should be in a campground. Just my opinion. Doesn't even need enforced regularly. You put a sign up that it's patrolled and if you're found to be there more than 12 hours it's a $1000 fine.

I agree. Here's an interesting quote from the article link:

"The suspects had been staying in a Suburban vehicle for at least four days in the parking lot, according to a man camping out in an RV in the parking lot" So the RV owner had been "camping" there for at least four days.

[KSagal]

I did rant on about Walmart a few posts ago...

A few clarifications:

1. I am not a huge fan of this big box store, and generally prefer the mom and pop shop, or the local fare. This is also true when traveling, as I like the atmosphere of local 'main streets'.

But, I show this favor by shoping there, and not shopping at Walmart. I do not show it by trying to outlaw Walmart.

2. I never said that I did not think people should not voice their opinion about Walmart. There is a difference between saying that you do not choose to shop there, and trying to pass a law against it.

In truth, laws should be passed by an opinion of the majority of the population. That is why we elect representatives by elections. If a majority of the population truly did not like Walmart, then the shoppers would dry up, and the store would fail. Just like the mom and pop stores are experiencing.

3. Walmart is a symptom, not a cause. They are filling a need and a want from the American consumer. They are not creating the desires of that consumer. If you don't want a Walmart in your town, you need to convince the shoppers who shop there, not the lawmakers.

Of course, that is much harder.

Towns who outlaw Walmart have a major portion of their consumer class go to other towns to spend their money. Outlawing a Walmart does not change the way society thinks.

So, I say, voice your opinion. Try to convince me. Just don't try to force me to comply with your opinion by changing laws under my feet.

[VAParrothead]

Originally Posted by firedoc

Can't view that site without subscribing😝😝😡

Worked fine for me.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by BobGed

I agree. Here's an interesting quote from the article link:

"The suspects had been staying in a Suburban vehicle for at least four days in the parking lot, according to a man camping out in an RV in the parking lot" So the RV owner had been "camping" there for at least four days.

All too often the press plays it fast and loose with the facts.

And they did not say the RV witness said he had been there with his RV for at least 4 days. You are assuming that.

I speak all the time of things I have heard from other people. I did not have to be there to see it myself.

I am pretty sure Diogenes walked around ancient greece with a lantern during the day looking for an honest man. I was not there in my RV however.

I am pretty sure Moses spoke to the Pharaoh and later left thru a parted sea. I was not there with my RV

I am pretty sure that Hitler and his buddies did some horrible things a while back. I was not there with my RV to see it, but I still am willing to tell reporters it was true.

All I am saying is that maybe someone in a RV said that family was there in their suburban for 4 days, but that does not mean the guy in the RV did not hear others say it, and had only arrived the night before...

We just do not know. And, of course, the RV guy may have been there dry camping for 2 weeks. We just do not know.

[cwsqbm]

Originally Posted by demoon

There are no overnight parking ordinances in five towns surrounding the area where we live in MA and none of those towns have RV parks. So, I'm not sure it is always the park owners behind these policies. Just an observation.

+1

The closest RV park to where I used to live was almost an hour drive away, and yet the local Walmart was banned by local ordinance from allowed overnight parking. Many suburbs of cities ban stuff like this merely because they heard some other town once had a problem. NIMBYs.

[jacwjames]

We went to Alaska in 2009, we did not have a toad so we had to drive our ~40' motorhome where ever we went. We went to Walmart to shop, there were signs prohibiting overnight parking. We still bought supplies at Walmart.

We were told that we could park at the Sports Authority across the street so we went there. We found the shopping area and there were ~+50 RV's parked of all shapes, sizes and condition of upkeep. We parked at one end and almost immediately were informed by the police that we had to past a certain invisible line. So we moved. We only stayed there 1 night, it was not a great experience. At one point we saw a vehicle slowly driving through all the RV slowing down in front of the ones that looked empty, both me and my wife thought they were looking to do unlawful thing!

We plan to go back to Alaska and probably won't be stopping in Anchorage, we already saw all we needed to see.

[Johnitis]

True, we both ranted on. Although, in your earlier post you said something to the effect that only people who own a Walmart should be able to complain about a Walmart.

I don't know where you live, but in the United States, people most certainly have the right to protest and press their elected officials to STOP what they consider to be harmful impacts to their safety and well being. Again, numerous studies support complaints that communities across the country have about Walmart's deleterious effects on their Main Streets. Those deleterious effects in many areas also include overnight camping.

Our county, north of San Francisco, and the other 8 Bay Area counties, prohibit overnight camping any place other than a campground. Big box stores are also limited. Taxpayers are the ones who foot the bills for the enormous infrastructure requirements that Walmart requires, the increases in public services they demand, as well as the impacts they have on the environment. These are further imposed upon when they offer free camping. So, yes, citizens DO have the right to prevent a business from operating with impunity.

In other places, Walmart's continued existence doesn't mean that people support it as often as it means there is no other option.

Originally Posted by KSagal

I did rant on about Walmart a few posts ago...

A few clarifications:

1. I am not a huge fan of this big box store, and generally prefer the mom and pop shop, or the local fare. This is also true when traveling, as I like the atmosphere of local 'main streets'.

But, I show this favor by shoping there, and not shopping at Walmart. I do not show it by trying to outlaw Walmart.

2. I never said that I did not think people should not voice their opinion about Walmart. There is a difference between saying that you do not choose to shop there, and trying to pass a law against it.

In truth, laws should be passed by an opinion of the majority of the population. That is why we elect representatives by elections. If a majority of the population truly did not like Walmart, then the shoppers would dry up, and the store would fail. Just like the mom and pop stores are experiencing.

3. Walmart is a symptom, not a cause. They are filling a need and a want from the American consumer. They are not creating the desires of that consumer. If you don't want a Walmart in your town, you need to convince the shoppers who shop there, not the lawmakers.

Of course, that is much harder.

Towns who outlaw Walmart have a major portion of their consumer class go to other towns to spend their money. Outlawing a Walmart does not change the way society thinks.

So, I say, voice your opinion. Try to convince me. Just don't try to force me to comply with your opinion by changing laws under my feet.

[Johnitis]

Given the incredulousness about the parking lot shootout, I don't think people are looking at this ban from other than their perspectives as Rver's. If Walmart offers free overnight parking, it can't be selective about who takes advantage of the offer whether in a Woody or a Winnebago. Further, free Walmart camping has a tremendous impact on public services, as a simple google search of "fire rv Walmart parking lot" proves. In urban areas, people move in, and it takes public services to evict them.

Bans on overnight camping at Walmart is not just about NIMBY-ism and supporting campgrounds.