Extra vehicle Fee at NFCG for Toad

[wagonmaster2]

I often wondered why Colorado charges a camping fee then on top of that a vehicle fee. How can you enter to camp without your vehicle. One trip to Colorado we passed a State Park we thought looked interesting and asked if we could drive through and see the sites for a future stop. Sure, just pay a $7 vehicle fee, whether you stay or not even though we were in our toad and couldn't stay. Never run into that at any private park, state park in any other state, or National Forest campground. Most just charge one price for camping and a vehicle (and as stated above they usually have a picture poster at the entrance showing what consists of a camping unit.)

[burfurd]

Typical government greed!!!!

burfurd

[BirchyBoy]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

hoosierrun, I just don't know what to say. After all the calamities you've suffered, you run into this? You said you were polite and I believe you, but I don't know how you do it. You apparently don't have a last straw.

Asking for the citation for the regulation that requires payment for any independent extra vehicle was the right course of action. In the concessionaire's defense, apparently he didn't see you come in as one unit. However, I would think that after you said you did, he could take a quick look at the towing setup and let it go. Or, well, that would work if he adhered to the "come in as one unit" standard; he was sticking with the "once you disconnect" standard, which is just wrong (as evidence by nobody attempting to collect the fee again).

Actually, I think there should be some flexibility on the "hooked up" requirement, especially if the two vehicles come in at the same time and have towing equipment but don't happen to be hooked up at that moment. But that's probably too much to ask of gate attendants.

For the record, Colorado used to charge for toads even when hooked up when entering the park, but they did away with that a few years ago.

Oh, and I seriously doubt you'll get a fine in the mail, although with your luck...

We were at Cherry Creek a few weeks ago. You're partially right: you can enter with a toad at no charge. If the toad is disconnected, a separate fee is charged.

[BirchyBoy]

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

I often wondered why Colorado charges a camping fee then on top of that a vehicle fee. How can you enter to camp without your vehicle. One trip to Colorado we passed a State Park we thought looked interesting and asked if we could drive through and see the sites for a future stop. Sure, just pay a $7 vehicle fee, whether you stay or not even though we were in our toad and couldn't stay. Never run into that at any private park, state park in any other state, or National Forest campground. Most just charge one price for camping and a vehicle (and as stated above they usually have a picture poster at the entrance showing what consists of a camping unit.)

It's because it's a state park with many activities available. A park pass gets you in the park for swimming, boating, etc. The campground fee is just for the spot. An annual pass waives the per-entrance fee.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by BirchyBoy

We were at Cherry Creek a few weeks ago. You're partially right: you can enter with a toad at no charge. If the toad is disconnected, a separate fee is charged.

Ah, right. I wasn't entirely clear. They did away with charging for a toad even when it was hooked up to the motorhome, which really was an outrage. Truck + trailer was charged one vehicle fee, while motorhome with toad was charged two vehicle fees.

Anything driven on its own upon entering the park is charged a vehicle fee. I think it's kind of silly when it's obvious that a certain toad goes with a certain motorhome, but giving entrance personnel discretion is often not a good idea.

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

I often wondered why Colorado charges a camping fee then on top of that a vehicle fee. How can you enter to camp without your vehicle.

You could hike in.

Texas goes them one better, by charging a per-person daily fee on top of the camping fee. You maybe able to enter a camp without a vehicle, but I guarantee you can't enter a camp without your self.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by burfurd

Typical government greed!!!!

As far as I know, state parks are not moneymakers for the state. The parks have to be funded somehow. Some people think users should pay for the things they're using, while others think taxes are a better way to fund things so everyone can use them. It sounds like you're in the latter camp.

[hoosierrun]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Texas goes them one better, by charging a per-person daily fee on top of the camping fee. You maybe able to enter a camp without a vehicle, but I guarantee you can't enter a camp without your self.

They pretty much force you to buy their annual park pass, especially if you plan to visit State Parks more than 1 time and/or you are not just single. I don't know how families can afford to camp there without an annual entrance pass.

[Fiesta48]

Some NB St Pks charges for 2nd motorized vehicle too.
We live in TX. Stopped going to their parks. We have several COE campgrounds nearby that charge less than 1/2, have full hookups in summer and are right on the water.

[CharlesinGA]

Late to the party, but with regard to the OP's issue, here are the fees for Red Bank Campground.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/uwcn...=9609&actid=31

"12 single sites - $17.00/day, Capacity - 8 people + 1 vehicle per single site
Extra Vehicle - $8.00"

According to this Forest Service Document which defines fees and when to charge, and lots of other details.

https://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/...2309.13_30.doc

For expanded amenity fee areas the following is stated.......... (if at least five items out of a list of many amenity's are provided, then the area is considered an expanded amenity fee area)

"Where extra motor vehicles are allowed in a camping unit, an extra fee of up to 50 percent of the expanded amenity recreation fee for the camping unit may be charged per extra motor vehicle, provided that one towed vehicle (such as a boat on a trailer or car towed by a motor home) per single camping unit is allowed free of charge if it can be parked completely on the surfaced area and does not create a safety hazard or threat to natural resources.

Fees for extra motor vehicles must be posted at the recreation site and in the National Recreation Reservation Service (NRRS), if the site is included in the NRRS.

If an extra motor vehicle poses a safety hazard or threat to natural resources, the visitor may be required to pay for an additional camping unit or to park in an overflow parking area, if available."

I read this to mean that essentially the TOAD becomes the one vehicle once the RV is established in the site, provided that it too can be parked fully in the site.

Charles
'07 WBO View H

[hoosierrun]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

Late to the party, but with regard to the OP's issue, here are the fees for Red Bank Campground.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/uwcn...=9609&actid=31

"12 single sites - $17.00/day, Capacity - 8 people + 1 vehicle per single site
Extra Vehicle - $8.00"

According to this Forest Service Document which defines fees and when to charge, and lots of other details.

https://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/...2309.13_30.doc

For expanded amenity fee areas the following is stated.......... (if at least five items out of a list of many amenity's are provided, then the area is considered an expanded amenity fee area)

"Where extra motor vehicles are allowed in a camping unit, an extra fee of up to 50 percent of the expanded amenity recreation fee for the camping unit may be charged per extra motor vehicle, provided that one towed vehicle (such as a boat on a trailer or car towed by a motor home) per single camping unit is allowed free of charge if it can be parked completely on the surfaced area and does not create a safety hazard or threat to natural resources.

Fees for extra motor vehicles must be posted at the recreation site and in the National Recreation Reservation Service (NRRS), if the site is included in the NRRS.

If an extra motor vehicle poses a safety hazard or threat to natural resources, the visitor may be required to pay for an additional camping unit or to park in an overflow parking area, if available."

I read this to mean that essentially the TOAD becomes the one vehicle once the RV is established in the site, provided that it too can be parked fully in the site.

Charles
'07 WBO View H

Excellent information. I'll make a copy of that document and carry it with me.... although I still think that private concessionaires don't always go by the printed rules. (example: in Ocala National Forest, concessionaire will not honor senior pass for camping discount)

In my case, the enforcement authority did not see me drive in with the toad connected and they only arrived after I had disconnected. I never ended up paying an extra vehicle fee and, so far, I have never received a violation in the mail.

[wa8yxm]

Being me I'm tempted to talk politics. but that is NOT the issue here.

The key words " the concessionaire " in your post

Concessionairs set many of the rules. INCLUDING THE PRICE for the campgrounds they administer. Some coose to honor senior discount cards. Some do not. Some charge for 2nd Vehicle, Some do not. Some.. Well fill in the Do and Do not with a whole lot of different items.

[burfurd]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

As far as I know, state parks are not moneymakers for the state. The parks have to be funded somehow. Some people think users should pay for the things they're using, while others think taxes are a better way to fund things so everyone can use them. It sounds like you're in the latter camp.

Not necessarily, but I have seen too much government greed, waste, senseless idiotic rules, etc. For instance, I saw a National Forest Campground almost emptied because of an idiotic Park Ranger making up rules on the spot including not being able to display an American flag in the campground. I was written a warning citation for hanging a light on a light pole at my site. This ranger caused over 150 complaint letters to be written and was eventually transferred from FL to Oregon and finally fired thank goodness!

Most government (Federal & State) campgrounds could be run much more efficiently and kept full a greater amount of time with a few improvements and rule changes. I have work-camped at a National Forest Campground and observed several others.

burfurd

[GREGORYJ]

We stayed one night at a Michigan State Park this fall and payed an additional $8.40 fee for our toad on top of the camping fee. It was the first time I encountered this. This fee was not per day, however, it was for the length of the stay which is a maximum of 15 days. Some Michigan parks have fees for the RV as well. See following:

Out of State Towed Vehicle Permit: The out of state person must buy a $30.50 annual permit for the motorhome. If you tow a vehicle behind the motorhome, you then pay a one-time $6.30 charge (not per day) that allows use of the towed vehicle for the entire length of the camping stay (even if you renew part way through your stay).
While the $30.50 is an annual permit that you won't have to pay at every park, you will still have to pay the $8.40 charge for the towed vehicle at every state park at which you camp.
The annual permit for the motorhome can be purchased at any campground office and the $8.40 fee for the towed vehicle is collected with your campsite fee upon checkin.