Community Forums

lce3 · 12-12-2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nudist

This is really a continuation of an old thread, changes to interoperability make the continuance of the thread important. Double billing can occur under some circumstances.

I have had the NY MTA Bridges & Tunnels: "E‑ZPass"(since 1987), FL: "SunPass"(since 2003), TX: TXTag(since 2009) and NC: "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass"(since 2018).
I have lived and owned motorhomes in Florida, New Hampshire and Massachusetts.

I have had a 44' Big Rig Flat towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. (5 axles)
I have had a Diesel Excursion towing an 8,000 lb (tandem axle) Airstream (4 axles)
I currently have a Jeep Grand Cherokee towing a tiny Tear Drop Trailer-T@B 400 (3 axles).
I currently live in Florida.
I currently Have The FL: "SunPass" and NC: "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass".

If you have a "NC Quick Pass" account and you have an "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass" transponder you can automatically pay tolls through that account in 18 states: Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia, West Virginia. (Texas should be online soon as well!)

I have retained my FL SunPass only to use for Florida Airport Parking.

Besides the hardware issues there is one main difference between the way E-ZPass does things and the way NC/GA/FL does things. This has to do with identifying vehicle classification. This is at the heart of the difficulty making interoperability work.
Within the E-ZPass system the transponder itself defines the vehicle type. For my 3 axle big rig while towing my 2 axle Jeep weighing 25 tons combined, I had a special Blue Transponder That was labeled for 5 axles and 50,000 lbs.
In Florida, the Transponder itself is not encoded with the class of the vehicle, rather, they counted axles as I was driving through. In Florida all I really had to do was leave my SunPass Transponder in my car and Leave the E-ZPass in the MotorHome. The E-ZPass was not picked up by the SunPass Toll only the car one was and it would still count all 5 axles. (When Florida goes online with E-ZPass someday this situation would cause double billing when going through an E-ZPass toll.) As interoperability comes online those with two passes in their cars have gotten double billed.

North Carolina's "NC Quick Pass" system had originally, and still does count axles. When North Carolina joined with E-ZPass creating the "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass" transponder, vehicle Classification was added to the transponder. This made NC a hybrid system. That is why NC integration between FL/GA and E-ZPass is possible. NC had to deal with this integration internally when they decided to join with E-ZPass. Technically, you can tow a trailer behind your car in NC with an "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass" 2 axle transponder, but if traveling north that would technically be a violation. I don't know if NC will provide two Transponders for the same car the way E-ZPass will.

Will Florida and Georgia force E-ZPass to add Axle counting to their toll system? Or will E-ZPass force Florida to add specific vehicle classification to each transponder?

On to the next issue:

If you are traveling through Florida with an "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass". The Pass is never identified. Your vehicle is only identified by its license plate. Your toll will be applied to your "NC Quick Pass" Account. I only put my "SunPass" on my window when I am going into a parking lot that accepts "SunPass Plus". Even so, since my Plate is registered with "SunPass" when going through a toll in Florida, my SunPass account is charged and not the "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass" account because the "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass" transponder on my window is never picked up. I assume it defaults to my SunPass account. "SunPass" personnel have said that double billing may occur. I have not seen this in my case yet. If this becomes a problem I will simply cancel my Florida Account.

Good rules to Follow, avoid having more than one transponder on your car, (keep others in read prevention bags). Always keep your License Plates updated on your authorities' website.
If you travel from Florida to the northeast and you don't need E-ZPass Plus or SunPass Plus to pay for parking, just get the "NC Quick Pass E-ZPass".

We have the NC Quick Pass and got charged for our MH license plate by E-Pass (Orlando) even though our MH was parked at a CG in Texas on the day in question. Even though there was no "entry" registered, they wouldn't take it off despite calling NC & the E-Pass people. Not much faith in them taking pictures of the license plate.

mjeffrey · 12-12-2018, 05:06 PM

Since your account is with NC you will have to deal with their out of state resolution department. I have had success with them after several follow ups. (It might take a few weeks for them to research the complaint. )

I suspect that they will want an affidavit that the vehicle was out of state.

lce3 · 12-12-2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjeffrey

Since your account is with NC you will have to deal with their out of state resolution department. I have had success with them after several follow ups. (It might take a few weeks for them to research the complaint. )

I suspect that they will want an affidavit that the vehicle was out of state.

Tried twice with NC but they told me we had to go through Florida because they had no documentation.

This was an older charge that got added back. No one has the license photo any longer to verify that it was read correctly.

I thought about the issue with proving we were out of state but how do you do that? I have reservation confirmations but that doesn't prove we were actually there. Packages ordered to the CG?

The thing that really bothers me is that they can submit the charge and somehow I have to prove I wasn't there when they said.

mjeffrey · 12-12-2018, 06:57 PM

They (NC) tried to pawn me off to the 'other' toll agency too, but they can't fix it. Only NC can. You have to work thru them. Ask for the person who manages those relationships. The people who answer the phone have to direct you to those who will actually work the complaint. Once I got to the correct team, it still took a few weeks.

A signed affidavit with a couple neighbors/ witnesses should be enough.

If they have no evidence, they should remove the charge. (Ask them for the name and phone number of the NC state Attorney General and see if that lights a fire under some one. )

lce3 · 12-12-2018, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjeffrey

They (NC) tried to pawn me off to the 'other' toll agency too, but they can't fix it. Only NC can. You have to work thru them. Ask for the person who manages those relationships. The people who answer the phone have to direct you to those who will actually work the complaint. Once I got to the correct team, it still took a few weeks.

A signed affidavit with a couple neighbors/ witnesses should be enough.

If they have no evidence, they should remove the charge. (Ask them for the name and phone number of the NC state Attorney General and see if that lights a fire under some one. )

Thanks for the suggestions. Will give it a try.

Still don't know how I'd do the affidavit. We were in the CG by ourselves - pretty sweet. Not even a camp host. As full-timers, so far we're only in one place up to 2 weeks so Texas is long gone now.

The thing I saw on the statement is no entry, just the exit. That was the excuse that E-Pass used for why they couldn't credit it back.

I was going to complain to Florida AG since it's their toll that is sending out the charges.

mjeffrey · 12-12-2018, 08:31 PM

If you have no receipt for the day in question, and NC needs more than just a signed statement, you may have to provide a copy of other bills/ receipts/ statements before and after that date to show your movement. Let NC tell you what they need. Just be clear that you are going to fight it, but be nice, if not gushing with sympathy and how sorry you are about all this. Honey works better than vinegar. Firm, but nice.

Assuming they couldn't have read your transponder, is your license plate generic or custom or easily confused with one from another state.

[Years ago I remember reading about someone who had a hell of a time getting a parking ticket, or something, reversed in a case where it couldn't possibly have been him. Car no where near the site of the photo taken. His license place was 'SR 71', as in the airplane. Finally, after a lot of trouble, got a copy of the picture. The picture was clearly of 'State Representative 71', S... R... was in smaller letters. Still had trouble getting it reversed, even with evidence it was a government official and not him. ]

04fxsts · 12-13-2018, 04:45 AM

A few years back I got a charge from NY for a toll and I have never been in NY or ever plan to be. Real pain to deal with, remembered the plate number they sent me was for a car I no longer owned, in fact it no longer ran and went to the scrap yard. DMV here in Illinois would/could not help except to say it happens every now and then.
I requested a copy of the photo which NY sent along with a statement that I would be charged an additional $50.00 administrative fee if I did not pay it by some date. The photo clearly showed the Illinois TRUCK plate with that same number. I found an old picture of my car that clearly showed the same number AUTO plate with the same number. The difference between the different types of plate is obvious. Sent a copy along with a letter explaining how they might better train their staff. Included a bill for $50.00 for educating their people about Illinois plate numbering system. That took care of my problem but I never did see the $50.00. Jim.

lce3 · 12-13-2018, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04fxsts

A few years back I got a charge from NY for a toll and I have never been in NY or ever plan to be. Real pain to deal with, remembered the plate number they sent me was for a car I no longer owned, in fact it no longer ran and went to the scrap yard. DMV here in Illinois would/could not help except to say it happens every now and then.
I requested a copy of the photo which NY sent along with a statement that I would be charged an additional $50.00 administrative fee if I did not pay it by some date. The photo clearly showed the Illinois TRUCK plate with that same number. I found an old picture of my car that clearly showed the same number AUTO plate with the same number. The difference between the different types of plate is obvious. Sent a copy along with a letter explaining how they might better train their staff. Included a bill for $50.00 for educating their people about Illinois plate numbering system. That took care of my problem but I never did see the $50.00. Jim.

Things like this are more what I am worried about. It seems as if there is no control once they decide to charge you. In your case, I guess there is a problem with using the same plate number. Not even sure if that's the case in other states. When we were in PA, our MH plate started with HH, which was their way of designating motorhome. So unless the plate were completely misread, it wouldn't be confused with another vehicle.

I wonder if there could be another auto plate in Florida that is the same as our motorhome. Otherwise, it had to be a misread.

In any case, it's frustrating that they seem to have the last word unless you jump through hoops to fight it.

lce3 · 12-13-2018, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjeffrey

If you have no receipt for the day in question, and NC needs more than just a signed statement,
...
Assuming they couldn't have read your transponder, is your license plate generic or custom or easily confused with one from another state.

[Years ago I remember reading about someone who had a hell of a time getting a parking ticket, or something, reversed in a case where it couldn't possibly have been him. Car no where near the site of the photo taken. His license place was 'SR 71', as in the airplane. Finally, after a lot of trouble, got a copy of the picture. The picture was clearly of 'State Representative 71', S... R... was in smaller letters. Still had trouble getting it reversed, even with evidence it was a government official and not him. ]

Another example of how the burden of proof is on the person wrongly charged. It's not even a case of owning a transponder.

Right. They didn't read our transponder because that was in Texas at the time as well. They had the right state and plate number so I don't know if it was a person or a machine that read it wrong. I suspect the problem is because our plate has II as part of the number, it might not show up clearly.

Part of the frustration here is that I talked to a representative who said it wouldn't be a problem to correct and told me what to send. When I did, it obviously went to someone else and they denied it.

powercat_ras · 12-13-2018, 11:47 AM

Another option other than North Carolina to get the portable transponder movable from vehicle to vehicle that works across the 18 states is to get an E-Pass Xtra thru Central Florida Expressway Authority.

Down side is the initial cost of $ 69.50 , which gets you the portable transponder and a toll account balance of $ 50.00 . Then you get a $ 40 replenish charge every time your balance falls below $ 10.

Central Florida EZ-Pass Web Site

MartyQQ · 12-14-2018, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

Another option other than North Carolina to get the portable transponder movable from vehicle to vehicle that works across the 18 states is to get an E-Pass Xtra thru Central Florida Expressway Authority.

Down side is the initial cost of $ 69.50 , which gets you the portable transponder and a toll account balance of $ 50.00 . Then you get a $ 40 replenish charge every time your balance falls below $ 10.

Central Florida EZ-Pass Web Site

Florida offers 3 options. IMHO, Florida's E-Pass Extra looks like the best option for those that want to move the transponder from motorhome to TOAD.

https://www.cfxway.com/e-pass-xtra/

lce3 · 12-14-2018, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyQQ

Florida offers 3 options. IMHO, Florida's E-Pass Extra looks like the best option for those that want to move the transponder from motorhome to TOAD.

https://www.cfxway.com/e-pass-xtra/

Pretty sure I can move the NC Quick Pass from MH to toad. Just got 2 when I signed up as they were around $10 each.

E-Pass is the one that randomly charged me and now won't take responsibility for it.

Maybe the problems are common but this is the first time I've had this happen in many years of having a transponder. So I wouldn't trust their documenting system or their customer service resolution ability. - I'd never even heard of them before having this issue with them.

Mr.Goodbar · 12-22-2018, 08:52 PM

None of these passes/transponders can be used crossing the I-65 and I-265 bridges over the Ohio River from KY to IN. Those are under control of a company named Riverlink. The I-64 bridge remains toll-free.

Wayne M · 12-23-2018, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lce3

Pretty sure I can move the NC Quick Pass from MH to toad. Just got 2 when I signed up as they were around $10 each.

[...]

I got mine from NC. They stated to move it from MH to Toad and not use the sticker just the transponder. They stated that having the transponder in the MH and the sticker in the Toad could cause double billing.

Road into FL stayed awhile switching it back and forth then went up the East Coast and across to IN and MI, then down to TN and home. Never had a problem with charges.