I-10 Border Patrol Checkpoints

[Mike and Cha]

Originally Posted by slowmachine

In a perfect world, only the guilty would be convicted and punished, but that's not where we live. A cursory Internet search for "wrongful conviction prosecutorial misconduct" will keep you reading for a good long time. The case that comes immediately to mind is the Duke University Lacrosse case, where the District Attorney was disbarred. I'm not, in any way, implying that this type of dishonesty is commonplace. The fact that there are so many cases in the news where prosecutors withheld exculpatory evidence to get convictions should be disturbing to every law-abiding citizen. There is no guarantee whatsoever that any of us will get a fair trial, because that fairness relies solely on the integrity of men, and the integrity of men is not 100% reliable.


Mike
2000 HR Endeavor

While this may be true what you are quoting is the exception not the rule, I can honestly say in my thirty plus years experience of practicing it, not just reading studies or biased opinions that don't always have all the facts( and trust me LE never has the ability to release all the facts they want where the defense has no limits), I have never put an Innocent person in jail, nor have I seen an innocent person get convicted. But I can tell you I have seen many dangerous criminals be released on a technicality, after they had originally agreed to a plea deal and even admitted committing the crime. So again it's all about who you want walking the streets in your neighborhood.

[Mike and Cha]

Also as a rule of thumb, most Defense Attorneys I have spoken to, a lot of them becoming friends over the years, don't ask their clients if they did the crime or try to get them to admit they committed the crime, as that puts them in a bad position in Court and when dealing with the Judges. They just want to know the facts via a police report or via the client where there may be a loophole or way to downgrade the charges. Now on the other hand the Prosecutor through the LE Investigator/Investigation always asks that question. Seems a little odd doesn't it.

[bttravel]

As a veteran (former) police officer I can comment that attitude, courtesy and common sense go a long way in affecting the outcome of a stop or questioning. At checkpoints they are looking for that telltale sign that something is not right (exactly what they are trained to look for) and they don't have the time to do full workups on everything and person that flows through the funnel. The road officer is also looking for specific signs that signals "not right" or requires further investigation. With the usual exceptions, that hopefully get weeded out at some point, police officers and border patrol are pretty focused on specifics. I've made a lot of traffic stops over those years that the driver got a warning. Mostly from attitude and understanding. When they look up at you as ask, "What's your problem officer", oh well, you might know how that one went. You can only imagine some of the responses we get and how many that actually had contraband in the vehicle consented to a search on the spot. Still makes me chuckle. Even if you encounter a LE officer that seems to be grumpy or short with you stay focused on answering politely and usually they will see you are not a threat or suspicious. Safe travels and smile!

[twogypsies]

The Border Patrol is doing a fantastic job. Perhaps those not living in the border states don't hear about it but this was a recent occurrence:

Near-record bust: Officers seize 17,000 pounds of marijuana in Nogales

As far as the amount of illegals passing through...it's at a all-time low. Some don't realize what a tremendous job they have to do as the smugglers get more creative every day. Recently there was an account of one stowed in a compartment made in the SUV's gas tank. We read about things like this daily.

Here's one about the drop in illegals over the years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2a4_story.html


We have no concern about answering simple questions.

[dexters]

Originally Posted by jackfish

Please cite the statute or code where it says what a border patrol agent can or can't ask you and what compliance they can or cannot expect. They can ask you your US citizen status.

how about the right against self incrimination

how about detention without cause

how about search without cause (unless a trained dog gives an alert)

There are many videos on youtube as this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-0xW2LbwMs

[mel s]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

The Border Patrol is doing a fantastic job.

I've also heard that we're going to build a wall...(and that Mexico will be paying for it).

[JC2]

Originally Posted by bttravel

As a veteran (former) police officer I can comment that attitude, courtesy and common sense go a long way in affecting the outcome of a stop or questioning. At checkpoints they are looking for that telltale sign that something is not right (exactly what they are trained to look for) and they don't have the time to do full workups on everything and person that flows through the funnel. The road officer is also looking for specific signs that signals "not right" or requires further investigation. With the usual exceptions, that hopefully get weeded out at some point, police officers and border patrol are pretty focused on specifics. I've made a lot of traffic stops over those years that the driver got a warning. Mostly from attitude and understanding. When they look up at you as ask, "What's your problem officer", oh well, you might know how that one went. You can only imagine some of the responses we get and how many that actually had contraband in the vehicle consented to a search on the spot. Still makes me chuckle. Even if you encounter a LE officer that seems to be grumpy or short with you stay focused on answering politely and usually they will see you are not a threat or suspicious. Safe travels and smile!

Works every time.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by mel s

I've also heard that we're going to build a wall...(and that Mexico will be paying for it).

The new Yuma wall along the border is working very well. Just went past it twice this winter and it looks good and everything was pretty quiet along that stretch.

http://www.yumasun.com/news/yuma-sec...a4bcf6878.html

[bfam2008]

I started my BP Career in Yuma back in 86, and a wall or even a higher fence would have be helpful. The current wall has helped slow down the traffic in that area but has pushed the smugglers out into the desert which has dramatically increase the number of BorStar Team rescues, there are good and bad to every counter measure.

Originally Posted by aauummm

The new Yuma wall along the border is working very well. Just went past it twice this winter and it looks good and everything was pretty quiet along that stretch.

http://www.yumasun.com/news/yuma-sec...a4bcf6878.html

[bfam2008]

Originally Posted by PJStough

The same is true when dealing with the police. If you are stopped by the police, and they want to search your vehicle, it is best to let them do so, otherwise, "they could ruin your day".

You do not have to consent to a search without a warrant by any Law enforcement officials..... but the Border Zone (within 125 mile of an international border) has exceptions to search and seizure rules which have been upheld all the way to the SCOTUS.


For the quote about drug dogs:
Some of the dogs the Border Patrol use are trained to find drugs some are trained to find people some are trained for both.

bill

[KSagal]

First off, I have never been a LEO. (Border Patrol or any other type of cop)

I did serve in the U.S. Army, and did take that same pledge to defend the Constitution from threats, foreign and domestic.

The guy in the car, being pleaded with by kid and wife was more of a threat.

While the amendment he was waiving in everyone's face may give him the right not to answer the question he wanted not to answer, the Constitution also give the right to congress to pass laws it deems necessary for the preservation of the union, and its security.

Therefore, the border patrol also had constitutional authority to ask the questions it had asked.

Both had constitutional authority for their position. But one was trying to accomplish a task, national security, and the other was trying to confound that task.

I do not agree, but the driver could say he was trying to accomplish a task as well, which was to retard or restrict the Border Patrol from diminishing his rights in the exercise of their duties. Again, I do not agree, but that would have to be his argument.

I believe that in this case, where both parties have authority for the actions they take, logic should rule. My taking that oath, which I hold dear, is not the same as a suicide pact, or a license to create more chaos in my wake...

Regardless of the situation, life is easier when the parties involved are respectful and get along. If one is purposely trying to confound the other, it will be a more difficult situation, than if both try to get with the same program.

The driver showed his hand when he asked the daughter to state where she was born. He showed that he had no real conviction to not answering the questions, and that he was just being a PIA because he knew (or thought he knew) that he could be. If he was honest and had conviction, he would not have asked his own family to answer the questions he refused to answer.

Those Border Patrol agents have a job to do. I don't think it would occur to me to be rude or disrespectful to reasonable questions put forth by them, as was this case.

If they went beyond reasonable, I might start to hesitate, but what we experienced in that video was some guy in a car causing trouble for the sake of it. No consitutional rights were being upheld, in my opinion, or evidenced by that tape.

As far as an earlier posting where a search might get me in trouble when they find stuff I did not know was there, such as contraband. I don't have things in my possession that I am not aware of. I don't have anything in my motor home that I do not know about.

One time decades ago, while in the Army in Germany, I took a trip with a friend, in my car, and I found out later that he had some pot with him that he did not tell me about. When I discovered it, he swore he would have told anyone that caught us that he did not tell me about it. (He did not tell me because I would not have allowed him to carry)

I did not leave him far away as I had considered. I did have him dispose of the drugs, and then I drove us back. Then, I never traveled with him again. Since that event, decades ago, I am pretty careful about what gets into my vehicles.

Because of that, I am not happy to be searched, but also not afraid that I might be found carrying anything I am unaware of...

I don't get stopped much, but when I do either by a speed cop or some sort of checkpoint, I simply ask reasonable questions and am friendly and polite.

I know that I am not the guy that they are looking for. The sooner they realize it, the better for both of us. I give no reason to make them think that maybe I am a threat. I am honest, and so far, it has worked out well.

[CampDaven]

I don't have anything aboard that is illegal, as I don't do such things. Therefore I have no fear.
Entering Canada I was pulled aside for a random check. And you don't have an option there. I look at it the same way coming into the US or going thru a border checkpoint.
Derogatory words, shifty eyes, or an unhappy face are not in my vocab or mannerisms. Just color me congenial and gregarious, with nothing to hide or worry about.
And what the heck do folks have aboard that is illegal and they forgot they put it there?
However, we do have Tupperware aboard that is older than most of the peeps on this planet. Are they illegally transported antiques?


Dave and Nola, RV Mutants

[Johnitis]

Unfortunately, video recordings are proving that is not always the case. However, none of those things have anything to do with the enforcement of law. Either one is in violation or one is not. Free speech is not selective.

Originally Posted by bttravel

As a veteran (former) police officer I can comment that attitude, courtesy and common sense go a long way in affecting the outcome of a stop or questioning.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by CampDaven

I don't have anything aboard that is illegal, as I don't do such things. Therefore I have no fear.
Entering Canada I was pulled aside for a random check. And you don't have an option there. I look at it the same way coming into the US or going thru a border checkpoint.
Derogatory words, shifty eyes, or an unhappy face are not in my vocab or mannerisms. Just color me congenial and gregarious, with nothing to hide or worry about.
And what the heck do folks have aboard that is illegal and they forgot they put it there?
However, we do have Tupperware aboard that is older than most of the peeps on this planet. Are they illegally transported antiques?


Dave and Nola, RV Mutants

I am the same way, just a happy go lucky, friendly guy. I did pull a stupid one going into Canada. The border guy asked the usual questions and then asked if I had any firearms on board. It hit me all of a sudden and I said "Oh crap, I forgot and left my handgun on board when I loaded up!" Here I was in Canada with an illegal firearm on board.

So I had to pull over and he came aboard and got the gun. He wouldn't touch it but stuck a pencil in the barrel and carried it that way. The border people were very polite and helpful. One of them, a lady kept my wife and 14 year old granddaughter company while I was doing paperwork. My granddaughter was telling her that she would like to be a border agent when she grew up.

The border people said that they would keep the gun in their safe and that I could come back within 60 days and pick it up. So I picked it up a couple of weeks later on my way back through.

However, I have no apprehension about answering questions or them wanting to know what I have on board. I never have anything that would be illegal on board (except that one time, duh!) so I never worry about it.

All in all it was a fun and enjoyable experience and gives people a lot of laughs when I tell the story on myself!