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Old 10-07-2014, 05:25 PM   #29
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In Germany, anyone not zipper merging everywhere it is needed usually gets a citation. It works because more vehicles fit in two lanes than in one lane. Same principle as when one lane at intersection is closed and traffic stacks up.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by stik View Post
I hate to say this and I will probably get flamed and beat up, but to both MickBrennan and plasma800, well folks, I just can't teach common sense and courtesy. Road rage is unacceptable behavior, but it's your type of driving that often causes it. You will refuse to understand that ALL THOSE PEOPLE that merge early are attempting to avoid the clogged up mess that you, and people LIKE YOU, ARE CAUSING. The merge point wasn't "designed by engineers" as THE point to merge, it is the LAST POSSIBLE point to merge. If people like you didn't fly up the right lane then "force your way in" the traffic flow would be much smoother. Again, YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND that going to the front and forcing your way in is WHAT IS CAUSING the complete stop of traffic that has already merged.
But I am wasting time and electrons trying to impart common sense and respect for others. Haven't you ever wondered why the professional truckers will sometimes block both lanes to prevent people like you from running up the empty lane and force your way in?? THEY understand the concept of merging early to maintain flow rather than stop it. Haven't you ever wondered why they start warnings about lane closure so far in advance? NOPE, I thought not!
Bet you were both grew up thinking there was nothing wrong with "cutting in line", right?
Again, lack of common sense and utter rudeness seem to be the current norm, part of growing up with a "ME, ME, ME" attitude, and it can't and won't be taught on this, or any other forum:bang head:
OK folks, let me have it for trying to explain the obvious . . . where's Bill Engvall and "Here's Your Sign" when you need him??
Stik, you are probably not one of these people i am about to speak of...but the other side should bring to light something that some of us deal with.

As soon as the first signs appear I put on my blinker and start looking in my side views. I drive with the speed limit until I see someone letting me in. Usually, what happens is the following.

I see other cars behind me forcing their way in to the appropriate lane...
Then I see said car pass me by and not let me in...
then no other cars let me in...
Then we're at the official merge point...
Now, what to do?

You gotta force your way in. Someone's got to let me in. C'mon people...I would let you in. Oh c'mon truck, really? You're not gonna let me in either? So I sit, and hold up ALL the traffic behind me that also weren't ballsy enough to force their way in a mile back. That's my story.

In Maine, a week ago...we saw signs everywhere when there was construction or just a lane reduction that said "take turns merging" - it's the same concept as zipper merge. Everyone on the road understands that is their job if they are in the mergee lane to allow one car in front of them. So each car let's a car in front of them and presto! All cars have been merged - and not a single honk or fist shaking - some places are just calmer than others.

I think instead of shaking our fists at others, maybe we should all just focus on letting people merge - if the whole world learned how to merge - what a wonderful world it would be.

As to the truckers of the world...when we are driving in the mountains...and all of a sudden the one lane we are all driving in presents itself with a second lane where i scoot over to let you pass, but then that lane ends literally 1/2 mile down the road, with BARELY ANY warning...and I put on my blinker to get back into the proper lane before it shoots me off a cliff - DON'T BLOW YOUR HORN AT ME and speed past me anyway and try to knock me off the road! I was being nice scooting over so your 55 MPH speed could surpass my 45 MPH speed going up a steep grade - and then you don't see the signs that says "lane ends in 100 ft" and you also don't see my blinker!! Now that's something that will heat you up - almost being driven off the road on the side of a mountain!!! And that's my vent - traffic jams are relaxing
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:59 PM   #31
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Pennsylvania often has signs stating, "stay in lane until merge point". Makes sense as a mile of 2 lanes will hold twice as many vehicles as a mile of 1 lane. Stretching traffic out twice as far as needed ties up more interchanges, cross streets and businesses. Use all lanes until "merge point".

Merging too early is like getting in the left lane because you have to make a left turn 3 miles ahead! Thus everyone has to pass on the right.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:21 AM   #32
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Lane closures - Merging

For some reason lorry drivers get really annoyed when they try the straddling 2 lanes thing and cars go round them on both sides, amusing to watch the steam shooting from their ears.


Also have signs saying "Use both lanes when queuing" but remember the self-righteous arses that pull this farm animal stupid stuff "Know Best and it's for you own good!"
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:41 AM   #33
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X2, X2, X2......

It's all well and good to drive to the merge point, but the entire process depends upon people alternately merging properly, which just doesn't happen very often. I'm like many others who get in the continuous lane early just to eliminate the hassle at the merge point.

QUOTE=mrsharper;2260320]Stik, you are probably not one of these people i am about to speak of...but the other side should bring to light something that some of us deal with.

As soon as the first signs appear I put on my blinker and start looking in my side views. I drive with the speed limit until I see someone letting me in. Usually, what happens is the following.

I see other cars behind me forcing their way in to the appropriate lane...
Then I see said car pass me by and not let me in...
then no other cars let me in...
Then we're at the official merge point...
Now, what to do?

You gotta force your way in. Someone's got to let me in. C'mon people...I would let you in. Oh c'mon truck, really? You're not gonna let me in either? So I sit, and hold up ALL the traffic behind me that also weren't ballsy enough to force their way in a mile back. That's my story.

In Maine, a week ago...we saw signs everywhere when there was construction or just a lane reduction that said "take turns merging" - it's the same concept as zipper merge. Everyone on the road understands that is their job if they are in the mergee lane to allow one car in front of them. So each car let's a car in front of them and presto! All cars have been merged - and not a single honk or fist shaking - some places are just calmer than others.

I think instead of shaking our fists at others, maybe we should all just focus on letting people merge - if the whole world learned how to merge - what a wonderful world it would be.

As to the truckers of the world...when we are driving in the mountains...and all of a sudden the one lane we are all driving in presents itself with a second lane where i scoot over to let you pass, but then that lane ends literally 1/2 mile down the road, with BARELY ANY warning...and I put on my blinker to get back into the proper lane before it shoots me off a cliff - DON'T BLOW YOUR HORN AT ME and speed past me anyway and try to knock me off the road! I was being nice scooting over so your 55 MPH speed could surpass my 45 MPH speed going up a steep grade - and then you don't see the signs that says "lane ends in 100 ft" and you also don't see my blinker!! Now that's something that will heat you up - almost being driven off the road on the side of a mountain!!! And that's my vent - traffic jams are relaxing[/QUOTE]
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:56 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stik View Post
I hate to say this and I will probably get flamed and beat up, but to both MickBrennan and plasma800, well folks, I just can't teach common sense and courtesy. Road rage is unacceptable behavior, but it's your type of driving that often causes it. You will refuse to understand that ALL THOSE PEOPLE that merge early are attempting to avoid the clogged up mess that you, and people LIKE YOU, ARE CAUSING. The merge point wasn't "designed by engineers" as THE point to merge, it is the LAST POSSIBLE point to merge. If people like you didn't fly up the right lane then "force your way in" the traffic flow would be much smoother. Again, YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND that going to the front and forcing your way in is WHAT IS CAUSING the complete stop of traffic that has already merged.
But I am wasting time and electrons trying to impart common sense and respect for others. Haven't you ever wondered why the professional truckers will sometimes block both lanes to prevent people like you from running up the empty lane and force your way in?? THEY understand the concept of merging early to maintain flow rather than stop it. Haven't you ever wondered why they start warnings about lane closure so far in advance? NOPE, I thought not!
Bet you were both grew up thinking there was nothing wrong with "cutting in line", right?
Again, lack of common sense and utter rudeness seem to be the current norm, part of growing up with a "ME, ME, ME" attitude, and it can't and won't be taught on this, or any other forum:bang head:
OK folks, let me have it for trying to explain the obvious . . . where's Bill Engvall and "Here's Your Sign" when you need him??
Thanks for the courteous and thoughtful reply.

Just to clarify I am certified in Work Zone Traffic Design and have held my CDL A for twenty six years with several hundreds of thousands of truck driving miles in my log. I am a safe and courteous driver.

Thanks also for bringing up the exact point of my post - Why warnings are placed in advance and drivers making up their own "rules" of the road.

Traffic slowing or more importantly, vehicles stopped, so far up-stream can quickly overpower the signage. The placement of traffic control devices and length of the taper is based on several things, the focus of which is lane capacity upstream of THE point of lane closure.
Personally, the event on the PA Turnpike that prompted the question was so bizarre as to make me shake my head. Traffic had backed up past an entrance ramp. Vehicles (like me) entering the Turnpike had a wide open right lane at least a half mile, with traffic stopped in the left. It seemed so odd.
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:24 AM   #35
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If a lane is closed up ahead, ... Often we'll see (or participate in) two large vehicles riding side by side; both going the left lane speed. ...
The vehicle in the right lane gets let in by the left laner when it's time to do so..
Exactly! They are using all open lanes.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #36
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Have you ever observed the metering lights at interchanges during busy periods? That is in reaction to the zipper merge theory.

If left unchecked the merging traffic can bring the through traffic to a full stop.

Same is true for merging at the last possible moment. If you try to put two vehicles into one spot one of the vehicles has to slow down. This will cause a slinky effect that can progress far down the roadway.

If EVERYONE would merge at the first sign the traffice passing through the choke point does not have to slow down and is able to clear the obstruction at the posted speed.

Should be apparent that slowing into the traffic line at the end will only reduce your speed to the speed of the line. Driving up at highway speeds and then forcing a merge into the traffic line at the last possible moment will reduce the speed of the merged lane.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:17 AM   #37
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Gordon...you just hit the nail on the head. Planned lane closures with all the signs work no better than emergencies with flashing lights...if the quantity of traffic requires all lanes to be open. Ten pounds of you know what just doesn't fit in a five pound bag.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:22 PM   #38
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So, by that reasoning, if you were driving along the highway, saw signs indicating that one lane was closed one mile ahead and encountered traffic stopped in one lane, you would immediately try to merge?
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:34 PM   #39
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So, by that reasoning, if you were driving along the highway, saw signs indicating that one lane was closed one mile ahead and encountered traffic stopped in one lane, you would immediately try to merge?
If I am in the lane that is closed ahead, yes, I would look to merge as soon as someone would let me in, if everyone used a little common sense, the traffic would only slow a bit and continue to flow.
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:01 PM   #40
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Of course then there is the cases where it is the lane that is closed But a half mile or so past an exit... One day I was going to work and got caught in that kind of backup... Well, since I am approaching my exit I am in the far right, a bit farther right than all the idiots crowding left so they can cut over ASAP.. I actually do not know which lane was closed ahead since.. I was not going that far. (I knew at the time but do not recall).

Well in this case Mr Ten-Tee (that's One Dee Ten Tee) decided to pass me on the right,, This means he's going to run the shoulder.. But to get past me he has to slide a bit farther right.. Right across a piece of metal debris that is at the point where the grass meets the asphalt.

Yup, Took out both passenger side tires. I continued to work, and sent a trooper to "help" him when I went on duty (State police dispatcher). Later same closure.

I'm watching on the rooftop camera.. Notified the trooper mannign the road block of a vehicle on the shoulder.. He had just pulled off past the "State Police Next Exit" sign... Yup, sign told the truth it did They wrote him up.. He claimed he was in a hurry but he looped the loop (Drove around about a mile square) just so he could give 'em the single finger salute. Oh well, I had fun. .

I kind of liked that job.

Of course if not for Ten-Tee's ... I would not have had a job.
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:38 PM   #41
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If you use the theory of first come; first served; then everyone should merge without passing on the right. By passing on the right you are saying, in effect, I am going ahead of you because you are in the slower lane; to bad so sad.
The other reason I like to move as soon as possible is because people behind the motorhome can then see the flashing arrow so they have a better chance to also pull over. Some people don't pay attention to the signs but do respond to the flashing arrow.
If you are in City traffic, I agree you will need to use both lanes as much as possible but on the highway if everyone slowed down and merged early then you would not get stuck in the right lane with forcing yourself into traffic. Slow down and enjoy the ride; then you will not upset everyone by passing them on the right.
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:43 PM   #42
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Gotta admit, I do smile when an 18 wheeler just crawls along in that merge lane, keeping everybody else behind him.
I was southbound on the NJ Turnpike a few weeks ago in very heavy traffic. It was a few miles before where 3 car only lanes merge into 2 car, truck, and bus lanes. Two 18 wheelers were intentionally controlling the traffic behind them by driving side by side at 10 miles an hour. There was at least a quarter to half mile between them and the the traffic ahead of them. This went on for about 3 to 4 miles. It was not only extremely agitating, but I could not for the life of me understand what they felt they were accomplishing...
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