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Old 05-02-2015, 11:16 AM   #15
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It really torques me out of shape that people feel it is ok to accost others with relative impunity. That said, at 60, I am coming to realize that in these situations it is more important to protect my wife and myself than it is my possessions or my principles.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:21 AM   #16
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Just having pepper spray might have stopped this, my wife carries it. I carry something heavier.
X2....You can't just give in to the criminals, for those of you who think that just give them what they want and they will go away. That is true for the moment but what you don't understand is these "animals" will go tell their other friend "animals" how easy it is and it then gets worse. And for those who do this the more they do the worse they get, next time they may force you back into your MH and do worse.

And having been in Law Enforcement for over 30 years, I will tell you every time I used Pepper Spray it was very effective in de-escalating the situation( and this was often on hard core criminals). For the poster who said it would only make it worse, then you are not using it right. A square hit in the face with it will not only put the person in immediate pain, it will also affect their vision temporarily giving you time to retreat inside your MH to safety and hopefully additional weapons. Pepper spray is very effective and it is rare that someone will not be affected by it when used properly.

I am all for getting out of the situation with the least amount of force, necessary and yes there may be several options. None of us go RV'ing to experience this type of thing, but you also must be prepared to protect yourself and loved ones from the "animals" who were raised by "animals". Cops can't be everywhere, and as with anything being aware of your surroundings is always your best first line of defense.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:26 AM   #17
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X2....You can't just give in to the criminals, for those of you who think that just give them what they want and they will go away. That is true for the moment but what you don't understand is these "animals" will go tell their other friend "animals" how easy it is and it then gets worse. And for those who do this the more they do the worse they get, next time they may force you back into your MH and do worse.
Interesting thought. Maybe I will just have to keep "something" hidden with-in easy grasp of entering the coach.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:34 AM   #18
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Interesting thought. Maybe I will just have to keep "something" hidden with-in easy grasp of entering the coach.
Well it's the golden rule for victims, once they start forcing you somewhere else, its usually to get you out of sight so they can only do worse things. So never let them force you out of view. It's better to put up resistance where you can be seen by other law abiding people, than for you to be forced out of view. Most crooks are depending on the victim to be a victim and to "go along with the program". The majority of petty criminals don't know what to do when the victim starts defending themselves, like with pepper spray or something else. Remember they are predators, much like animals, and pick their prey based on what resistance they think they will encounter. Sometimes just looking confident and not scared can be a good defense. One of the primary training mottos for Officers is always prepare for the worst, plan on what you are going to do if that happens, and if it doesn't happen you are all the better.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:36 AM   #19
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Well it's the golden rule for victims, once they start forcing you somewhere else, its usually to get you out of sight so they can only do worse things. So never let them force you out of view.
Very true. I always told my kids & my wife to take a stand out in the open where you can be seen & heard. This "be quiet & I won't hurt you" is the biggest lie ever told. That said, if someone just wants to take something & run away, the best option may be to let them do that. Hard to know which is right. Too many people have been killed over defending the $50 they have in their wallet.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:57 AM   #20
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Very true. I always told my kids & my wife to take a stand out in the open where you can be seen & heard. This "be quiet & I won't hurt you" is the biggest lie ever told. That said, if someone just wants to take something & run away, the best option may be to let them do that. Hard to know which is right. Too many people have been killed over defending the $50 they have in their wallet.
Well I won't say there isn't any merit to that thought and hindsight is always 20-20. I've seen people basically executed at an outside ATM, even after giving up the $20 they took out. So I never use an outside ATM and just go into the bank( just one of my defense mechanisms).

Surely there is nothing worth getting killed over, or having to kill someone over, except protecting your kids and wife, or some other person. The only problem is the crooks actions will always escalate over time when they get away with crime. They usually don't start out with a murder, rape, or robbery, they tend to work up to that.

Again being prepared and thinking what will I do if A B or C happens is the best defense. If you know what you are going to do in a situation( or at least think you do) many times that exudes a sense of confidence which will make most of the "animals" pick a different victim. You don't have to be paranoid about it, some of the things could be as simple as driving to another location to stop and rest if the surroundings don't look good, I've done that several times. My wife always sees the beauty of any location and often overlooks the car full of thugs sitting in the rest area, me I always look for that first. And of course being able to retreat to the safety of your MH, and a bigger choice of protection, will be respected by law enforcement and the legal courts if for some reason you have to defend you and your family with the use of lethal force.
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:13 PM   #21
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Unless something has changed recently, all Kentucky Rest Areas are manned 24 hours per day. Ky started that many years ago when 3 rest areas were severely vandalized inside and outside, and Florida had experienced a string of armed holdups. Those incidents prompted the Transportation Cabinet in several states including Kentucky to fund the 24 hour security system.
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Old 05-04-2015, 02:36 PM   #22
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Kentucky is an open carry state. Deterrence is more than half the battle.
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:08 AM   #23
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The problem is that there was no immanent threat of lethal force, and any firearm use would have big legal repercussions.
We don't know if there were any indications of imminent threat. Being assaulted is a threatening act alone. Since there were more than one perp, one of them could have had a concealed weapon and drawn it if the victim balked.

As for legalities, "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried out by six."
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:10 AM   #24
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Strong Arm Robbery KY Rest Area

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Kentucky is an open carry state. Deterrence is more than half the battle.

In the aledged incident (there's no record of it happening including the police media reports) the 'victim' was walking a German Shepherd.

If someone is dumb enough to approach a person walking a GS and try to mug then I doubt they'd be bright enough to be concerned about a gun either.
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:12 AM   #25
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The only thing I found online was an armed robbery at a Kentucky rest area back in 2012.
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:18 AM   #26
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Mike as you are retired LEO I hope you took advantage of HR218 Federal Law....allows you to carry in all 50 states with no permit...
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Old 05-05-2015, 01:11 PM   #27
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We full-timed for 16+ years. We rarely stayed in RV parks. We loved boondocking in the West miles from civilization. We loved national forests and any public campground. We've stayed at Wally's, Rest Areas or just a road-side pullover.


We had never felt uncomfortable. We have many full-timer friends camping the way we do and they never had a problem either and they don't carry guns. It's important to be aware of your surroundings but to become paranoid to the point that there's a need to have a gun would have never worked for us.
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Old 05-05-2015, 11:41 PM   #28
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Mike as you are retired LEO I hope you took advantage of HR218 Federal Law....allows you to carry in all 50 states with no permit...
Yes, I have my CCW per HR218, which is nice, the only drawback if any is we have to qualify every year which is no big deal. But a lot of States who issue CCW's there is no qualification other than a one time class, but then again Ours have no restrictions where we can carry, other than where a regular off duty officer can't carry.


As to the poster who said the situation didn't rise to the level of the use of lethal force. The way you need to look at it is if you retreat to pull out a weapon, and display the weapon, and the crook still comes after you the courts have long considered that a situation of self defense if you were to use lethal force. I'm not suggesting you take that lightly as it's never good even when you are justified, but at some point you may have to defend yourself with lethal force. Hopefully they will turn and run when you display a weapon and at that point they are making the decision for you.
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