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Old 10-17-2010, 02:35 PM   #29
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Rusty,

Thanks. I am slowly wrapping my head around it. I went to look at my campgrounds electrical service and of course they don't know where it feeds from. (all underground service no poles). Also, please accept my apologies for my ignorance.
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:45 PM   #30
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No apology required. I think the light is about to come on....

Rusty
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:51 PM   #31
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Rusty, is the light a 12 VDC or is it a 30A or a 50A light????

I have enjoyed this discussion and did not want to get in the middle of it.

Ken
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:50 PM   #32
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While you're wrapping your brain around this, please alllow me to cite once again from the article I cited earlier:

Quote:
A transformer supplying a 3-wire distribution system has a single-phase input (primary) winding. The output (secondary) winding is center-tapped and the center tap connected to a grounded neutral.
Does this help? Again, we're splitting a 360 degree single phase sine wave with the center-tapped neutral secondary transformer winding (actually, we're shifting the phase by 180 degrees so that the waveforms of the two secondary hot legs, measured with reference to neutral, are mirror images of each other, but don't get hung up with that), so 360 degrees (the period of the sine wave) divided by 2 equals 180 degrees. That's why it's called a split-phase system.

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Old 10-17-2010, 04:04 PM   #33
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Rusty, I too find your link very informative. Reading the "discussion" part of it, it now makes more sense to this old man. I faintly remember electrical theory class , and that's about all.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:57 AM   #34
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You can not transform 30 amp service to 50 amps.

There are several things you can do which may make you happier but you can not convert 30 amps to 50 amps without sacrificing serious voltage. (voltage * Current * Efficency = constant)

SO if you were to "Transform" 30 amps to 50 amps you'd have 75 volts (or less) which is not enough to run anything.

THus, You can't do it.

Now.. what you can do.. WITH THE PARK's PERMISSION you can run two 30 amp cords to two 30 amp outlets, HOWEVER you must have park permission as most parks if you do this you may be ask to park... Elsewhere (And no refund) The device is called a cheater box.

The reason for the policy is that there is usually ONE 30 amp outlet per site and if you take 2, you are taking 2 sites.

The other thing you can do is Power Solutions

This lets you slice off one device (The bedroom A/C on my rig) and plug it into the 20 amp outlet all by it's lonesome.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:22 PM   #35
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Bam! Just got hit right between the eyes with this thread.

Well, I'm thinking that since my post about taking electric from the campground without them knowing about it, got no response. That anything goes. That 30 amp connector on the back of my coach is holding me back. I can only get 3600 watts out of that connection. So there are going to be some changes made in this coach. First a new breaker panel is going to be installed. The supply to that panel will come from my new 50 amp 12,000 watt cable. Now I can really heat my MH in the winter. Best yet, I know how to do it.

I've been scratchin my head for a couple of months for a solution to the heating in winter problem. Even went the Step Warmfloor route to economize on the heating load. All that money for nothin. The answer was just outside the box I'm living. Winter camping/motorhoming here I come. Hey, I did get something from this. Thanks
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:23 PM   #36
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Just an interesting discussion on another site:

Open Neutral

This page reminded me of a thread here accusing old motorhomes of causing electrical fires.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:33 AM   #37
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Use this as a reference but don't do anything on guesswork PLEASE!:

nojolt Home Improvement Site Map
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOODYDEL View Post
Just an interesting discussion on another site:

Open Neutral

This page reminded me of a thread here accusing old motorhomes of causing electrical fires.
The information in that link is an excellent reason for everyone who owns a 50A RV to equip it with a EMS-HW50C
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:06 AM   #39
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If I may, it seems that a major point is being ignored by some.

30a rv elctrical service is just that 30 amps at 120 volts.
the 50 amp is what is killing everyone.
In an rv with "50a" service, it is actually 50 amp 240volts, which is actually 100 amps at
120 volts.
Now, since 240volts ac is made by the sum of two legs of 120vac.
you now have two legs (or circuits, if you will) of 50 amp 120volt ac
Now, if you take either of these legs, or circuits, to a neutral, not ground,( however, in a real household environment will work), you will achive 120 volts.
If you combine the two "hot" legs you will achive 240vac.
So, to keep things in total perspective, If you have a M/H with a "30a" plug, you have 30a 120volt service.
If you have a M/H with a "50a" plug, you have 100a 120volt service.
And, in reverse, if you have a M/H with a "50a" plug you have 50a 240 volt service.
then if you have a M/H with a "30a" plug, you have 15a 240volt service. (not really, only in theory, since you can't make 240 volts with only one leg). You can't make power out of nothing. With true RV 50 amp service you have two legs of 50 amp power. with RV 30 amp service, you have only one leg of 30 amp power, if you add a so called cheater box, it will only add another 20 amps of service to your already 70 amp short supply. If you tap into some one elses 30 amp pole, you will still only have 60 amps, 40 amps shy of the 100amps a 50 amp coach is wired for. I know, it sounds stupid but it is real.
Math, it's a wonderful thing.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:41 AM   #40
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Keep it simple...

We wont go down the 120/180 thing, that depends on how the area is fed from the utility.

So we go back to the need to connect a 50 amp RV connector to a 30 amp park connection.

Most RV 50 amp connections are simply to allow for both AC to run.

The heavy hitters, so if you are only running a single AC then use the simple cheap adaptor that has the single 30 amp plug and call it a day.

But if you are in need of running bot AC or if you have electric heat AND it runs on 120 volts AND the heater by itself is less than 30 amps or so, then you MAY be able to adapt the pedistal connections to your 50 amp cord.

You first need to confirm the different connections that you are gong to use are on DIFFERENT circuits.

Simple connections and you are ready to go, make a junction box with short corded males to connect to the 30 amp sources, be careful to insure they are isolated from each other.

You need to consider what your needs are and what is available before making something that may not be needed or not be safe
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotMech View Post
If I may, it seems that a major point is being ignored by some.

30a rv elctrical service is just that 30 amps at 120 volts.
the 50 amp is what is killing everyone.
In an rv with "50a" service, it is actually 50 amp 240volts, which is actually 100 amps at
120 volts.
Now, since 240volts ac is made by the sum of two legs of 120vac.
you now have two legs (or circuits, if you will) of 50 amp 120volt ac
Now, if you take either of these legs, or circuits, to a neutral, not ground,( however, in a real household environment will work), you will achive 120 volts.
If you combine the two "hot" legs you will achive 240vac.
So, to keep things in total perspective, If you have a M/H with a "30a" plug, you have 30a 120volt service.
If you have a M/H with a "50a" plug, you have 100a 120volt service.
And, in reverse, if you have a M/H with a "50a" plug you have 50a 240 volt service.
then if you have a M/H with a "30a" plug, you have 15a 240volt service. (not really, only in theory, since you can't make 240 volts with only one leg). You can't make power out of nothing. With true RV 50 amp service you have two legs of 50 amp power. with RV 30 amp service, you have only one leg of 30 amp power, if you add a so called cheater box, it will only add another 20 amps of service to your already 70 amp short supply. If you tap into some one elses 30 amp pole, you will still only have 60 amps, 40 amps shy of the 100amps a 50 amp coach is wired for. I know, it sounds stupid but it is real.
Math, it's a wonderful thing.
Kerry

One cannot argue with logic and mathematics, but some do ignore them.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:55 AM   #42
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I love the handle of the OP - - - HOUDINI. Friend, if you can come up with a workable item that will do what you are asking, sign me up for one and we will all applaude you. That breaks all the physics rules of gaining more power out that you put in. I see you are a new poster - - this 30/50 stuff can be puzzling when first confronted, so don't feel intimidated. Good articles mentioned here - - read them and they will help immensely.
Bob
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