Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-16-2016, 09:03 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
wingnut60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wherever the Suites is
Posts: 2,986
Biggest difference is the wattage available with 50a service==12000 watts vs 3600 with 30a service. You can run a lot of stuff at the same time with 12000 watts, AS LONG AS THE MFG balanced the circuit loads--a lot of them don't.
Joe
__________________

__________________
'15 38RSSA Mobile Suites
'05 36TK3 Mobile Suites--retired but not forgotten
'17 F450--trying one more Ford
'09 F450--died, replaced with '10--retired
wingnut60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-16-2016, 10:49 AM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 28
50 amp service is normally a 240 volt service split in two. You are provided 2 separate 120 volt services, say service #1 and #2. Your coach will be wired so that service #1 will go to half of the demand and #2 will go to the rest. When you have two ACs, they are normally not on the same service.
Take a voltmeter across the 50 am service and you will see 240 volts. That is how some coaches are able to have 240 volt driers etc. You have two 120 volt services out of phase.
You will see two breakers normally on the power pedestal and these breakers are different. One is 30 and the other is 20 amp.
__________________

__________________
Steadfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 06:31 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by defekticon View Post
Buying either a KZ Sportsman 355TH or a Wolfpack325Pack13. I had a list of options I wanted to roll in with the purchase. But relevant to this thread these two items were on my short list:

Second A/C
Generator

I received some really honest advice from a KZ dealer that I didn't get from the other dealer, and I want to follow it up with some other owners experience.

1. He doesn't recommend Onan's or generators that actually sit in the generator compartment because they're too loud during sleeping hours and consume too much fuel. He suggested a Honda whisperquiet and carry it in the Garage. This seemed like some really great advice to me, does anyone else find this to be true? I would probably pick a yamaha if I had the choice as I have a good relationship with the local yamaha dealer.

2. The second A/C is not required if the primary unit is a 15k high efficiency unit, and you're not traveling to the southwest. I'm on the fence with this advice, I'm willing to try it out and upgrade later if it's an issue, but I do plan to spend plenty of time in Florida. My 30ft Surveyor couldn't keep up with a 13.5k unit during the day. I'm sure the newer toyhaulers are better built/insulated, but the two trailers I'm looking at are 10 feet longer and several feet taller. Thats a great deal of interior volume to cool off.

2a. 50amp service cannot reliably run two A/C units. A/C units + inverter leaves very little left for anything else. I see folks with triple A/C units, what's the point? Do they run them in a zoned pattern?
Sounds like your dealer has never spent any time in a 5th wheel, let alone a toy hauler. I had a Keystone Fuzion 404 toy hauler with the Onan 5.5 gas generator which worked great off of the two 30 gallon gas tanks built into the Fuzion. Even two ACs have a hard time in direct sun, especially in Florida. Personally, if I could, I would go with three ACs and of course a larger Onan. I now have a 40ft Crossroads Carriage with the Onan 5.5 propane (since no built in gas tanks), and have had friends impressed with how quiet the generator is.

I walked away from a dealer when I was first looking, just because of the advice you listed above.
__________________
gford10480 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 07:56 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Rising Sun, MD
Posts: 57
Interesting answers. I'm not going with that dealer, but it's not because of his sales pitch, just the floor plan of that trailer didn't appeal to me. The particular unit had been on the lot for awhile, the unit was marked down, and the dealer would have installed the missing items for me if requested without needing to special order a new unit.

All of the fifthwheel toyhaulers I've seen seem to be ordered without the 2nd A/C and the dealers are offering to install them prior to delivery. They don't need to be ordered with the 2nd A/C, the units are already pre-wired for the 2nd units in the master bedroom. The dealer offered to install a low pro for about ~$1k.

The one thing I have considered is getting a low profile unit with a heat pump, little bit more expensive for an extra 400.

I am definately leaning more towards the honda generator so I can use it outside of the trailer and as backup for the home. If I ever go fulltime, It'll be the first upgrade I pick up.
__________________
2011 F-350 DRW CC 5-Star tuned 6.7 pulling a 2017 WolfPack 325 Pack13
defekticon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2016, 02:35 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by defekticon View Post
Buying either a KZ Sportsman 355TH or a Wolfpack325Pack13. I had a list of options I wanted to roll in with the purchase. But relevant to this thread these two items were on my short list:

Second A/C
Generator

I received some really honest advice from a KZ dealer that I didn't get from the other dealer, and I want to follow it up with some other owners experience.

1. He doesn't recommend Onan's or generators that actually sit in the generator compartment because they're too loud during sleeping hours and consume too much fuel. He suggested a Honda whisperquiet and carry it in the Garage. This seemed like some really great advice to me, does anyone else find this to be true? I would probably pick a yamaha if I had the choice as I have a good relationship with the local yamaha dealer.

2. The second A/C is not required if the primary unit is a 15k high efficiency unit, and you're not traveling to the southwest. I'm on the fence with this advice, I'm willing to try it out and upgrade later if it's an issue, but I do plan to spend plenty of time in Florida. My 30ft Surveyor couldn't keep up with a 13.5k unit during the day. I'm sure the newer toyhaulers are better built/insulated, but the two trailers I'm looking at are 10 feet longer and several feet taller. Thats a great deal of interior volume to cool off.

2a. 50amp service cannot reliably run two A/C units. A/C units + inverter leaves very little left for anything else. I see folks with triple A/C units, what's the point? Do they run them in a zoned pattern?
1. I have a Onan 5.5 installed into the front compartment meant for a hardwired generator. I have absolutely no problem with the noise while sleeping. Its much quieter than I thought it would be. Now, a bit of noise doesn't bother me when I sleep; if you need it dead silent then you may feel differently. As others have said, the AC is far noisier than the generator.

2. Disagree, especially with humid climates. I was in OK this past week and it was humid as there were storms in the area. We started off running the 15K AC in the living room, but it just wouldn't keep up. Had to run the second unit in the bedroom in order to get down to a comfortable temp. I'm sure it would even be worse in places like Florida. Actually, I think that a single AC unit would keep up better in the SW due to the low humidity.

2a. Whoever told you that is feeding you @#$% sandwich. 50a service will easily run two generators, and probably most everything else in your trailer at the same time. I can attest to this as I did just that within the past week.

I know my onan genny will run both ACs, but it puts it close to the max output and I wouldn't try to run too many other high draw appliances at the same time.

My generator runs off the propane system, and it can be pretty thirsty if running an AC as well as some other appliances. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most toy haulers have fuel storage (essentially a gas tank) built in for carrying fuel for the toys. I also believe that the Onan gennys are a bit more efficient running off gas rather than propane.

In this scenario, it would be a no brainer for me. Get the second AC installed and put in a hard wired Onan 5.5 (or larger) generator. The built in generator has the benefit of being hard to steal, being able to start up without going outside and (with a fuel source like a gas tank in the toy hauler) you wont have to be going outside in the middle of the night to top off the fuel tank when it runs out.
__________________
ResidentEvil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2016, 11:34 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
FaithBowls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 421
Every motorhome we park next to with an Onan we're shocked how noisy it is compared to our Honda. And good luck getting a 250 pound generator out of the back of my one ton. Not too many thieves are going to do that heavy lifting and certainly not without me noticing.
__________________
FaithBowls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2016, 11:35 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
FaithBowls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 421
Sorry for multiple posts...
__________________
FaithBowls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2016, 11:41 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
FaithBowls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 421
And the big Honda runs 4 hours on 1 gallon of gas.
__________________
FaithBowls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2016, 06:29 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Whitewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Michigans U.P.
Posts: 172
As far as the second A/C, our 5r is 34'. We have 1 A/C. Not a problem since we live in the U.P. of Michigan. Wrong. My wife is in southern Missouri near her parents who are in a nursing home. Hottest it's gotten so far is high 80's and she is suffering in the heat. When I get her back home we'll be installing a second A/C. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
__________________
No dogs. No cats. No kids. Just us.
'14 CTD Ram 3500 SRW * Mag-Hytec Trans pan and Rear Diff cover * Amsoil everywhere.
'14 Montana High Country * Reese Goosebox * Morryde HD shackle kit * JoyRider shocks
Whitewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2016, 08:02 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Jayco Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 9
We have a Jayco Pinnacle that is 40'. We have the two A/C's and a 5500 Onan generator (gas). Here in Arkansas we need 2 A/C's, temperature and humidity. We also have the heat pump on the main A/C. As said previously, the 5500 Onan will run both A/C's. We have the built in generator, partly because of the dogs. We can travel, stop and see the sights or eat and make sure the dogs are in the cool in the 5th wheel, while we do whatever it is. The generator came in handy a few weeks ago when a storm knocked power out in the campground for approximately 4 hours. We considered a Honda or Yamaha generator, but decided for us a built in made more sense. Trailer that big needs 2 generators in most of the country. Better to have and not need, than need and not have.
__________________
okraman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2016, 07:33 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Rising Sun, MD
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaithBowls View Post
Every motorhome we park next to with an Onan we're shocked how noisy it is compared to our Honda. And good luck getting a 250 pound generator out of the back of my one ton. Not too many thieves are going to do that heavy lifting and certainly not without me noticing.
So you run the honda from the back of the truck without any issues? 250lbs... I'm assuming that's a 5000watt ? Do you have any problems running this generator in the rain or do you keep it covered? This is a potentially really good solution for me.

I just want to be able to pull up to a rest stop, truck stop or Walmart, kick on the genny and go to sleep for 8 hours. I came to the same conclusion that the Onan 5500's are louder than I care for. However I know the newer two cylinders have made improvements, I think I'd much rather have a Honda or Yamaha unit.

We ended up buying the Wolfpack 325 Pack 13. It has an access port for what I'm assuming is a generator cable or external gas supply on the drivers side of the trailer. If I can get this down to just plugging in the generator and going to bed I'll be happy, and I can remove it from the truck to get additional use from it.
__________________
2011 F-350 DRW CC 5-Star tuned 6.7 pulling a 2017 WolfPack 325 Pack13
defekticon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 07:08 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Scottybdivin's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spicewood Texas (West of Austin)
Posts: 3,380
defektikon, if you have a fuel cell, the very best option is an on-board generator with an automatic transfer switch. No connecting cords, or having to add gas before you go to bed. You just push the button from inside the trailer and it starts, and the transfer switch transfers power to your coach. The reason for having an external generator are lack of fuel supply and cost. Most conventional 5th wheels do not have a fuel cell and a built-in generator becomes a less important option. However, even then, some elect to go with propane generators.
__________________
Scotty and Kristen, Airedales Dagny and Wyatt
2007 Newmar Mountain Aire 4528, 450 HP ISM, Allison 4000, 8 Trojan T-105's
2014 F150 4x4 Crew Cab Platinum 157" WB
Roadmaster Blackhawk 2, RVI2 Brake System
Scottybdivin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 07:38 AM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 13
As everyone has said, get the 2 ACs and 50 AMP will run them. I would go with the onboard Generator. Having come from a motorhome, I really miss the onboard genset. I have the pair of Hondas, and they run what I have on the 5er, but are not ideal. The convenience of just pushing the button and the generator starts is great, vs getting up in the middle of the night, going out in bad weather to refuel and start the generator because the furnace drained the battery or something. Now you can get an auto start for the onboard Onan, so battery level gets low, or temp hits a certain spot it auto starts.

Hopefully the next 5er I get will have a gas powered generator.
__________________
3pedal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 08:23 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by defekticon View Post
Buying either a KZ Sportsman 355TH or a Wolfpack325Pack13. I had a list of options I wanted to roll in with the purchase. But relevant to this thread these two items were on my short list:

Second A/C
Generator

I received some really honest advice from a KZ dealer that I didn't get from the other dealer, and I want to follow it up with some other owners experience.

1. He doesn't recommend Onan's or generators that actually sit in the generator compartment because they're too loud during sleeping hours and consume too much fuel. He suggested a Honda whisperquiet and carry it in the Garage. This seemed like some really great advice to me, does anyone else find this to be true? I would probably pick a yamaha if I had the choice as I have a good relationship with the local yamaha dealer.

2. The second A/C is not required if the primary unit is a 15k high efficiency unit, and you're not traveling to the southwest. I'm on the fence with this advice, I'm willing to try it out and upgrade later if it's an issue, but I do plan to spend plenty of time in Florida. My 30ft Surveyor couldn't keep up with a 13.5k unit during the day. I'm sure the newer toyhaulers are better built/insulated, but the two trailers I'm looking at are 10 feet longer and several feet taller. Thats a great deal of interior volume to cool off.

2a. 50amp service cannot reliably run two A/C units. A/C units + inverter leaves very little left for anything else. I see folks with triple A/C units, what's the point? Do they run them in a zoned pattern?

I have a little different take on the generator issue, but first to address the issues in numerical order:

1. for me, Built In vrs portable any day

2. He's nuts to say only one AC, go with the advice here from users that know. 2 AC's anytime you go over about 30 feet. For two reasons: you can regulate the temp front to back differently, and if one of them craps out on a trip, you can still get by on the 2nd one without ruining your trip, or spending 10 days of your trip sitting at a dealer waiting for parts.

2a. Whoever gave you this advice is just plain wrong. We have 50 amps, can run both AC's, electric water heater, microwave, and just about anything else we can think of without even blinking. That assumes that your rig manufacturer knew how to balance the load on both legs of the 50 amp however . . .

Now to my point, if you go to a built in, consider a diesel quiet generator. More expensive to purchase, much longer life expectancy, quieter than gas if properly insulated, and they just LOVE to run at full load! If you rig has a fueling station and you aren't using it, use it for diesel (label accordingly) and you already have your fuel tank! Diesel will use less fuel at max rated load than a gas generator.

On the built in, there's an awful lot to be said (as stated earlier) for pushing a button from the inside of the rig to start rather than having to go outside in the middle of the night in your skivvies to start, stop, refuel, etc your portable generator!
__________________

__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator, onan



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Onan generator voltage too high and low jdwky MH-General Discussions & Problems 82 07-21-2015 06:56 PM
Our "new" 5ver? 68dodgeramman New Rig Show-Off! 10 01-29-2009 05:17 PM
Need place to park and use 5ver near O'Hare Int'l. Bo Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 2 09-17-2007 06:58 PM
TT and 5ver merits John and Ginny Travel Trailer Discussion 17 05-04-2006 08:36 PM
PIC of New 5ver Rick A New Rig Show-Off! 5 09-16-2005 07:01 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.