Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-26-2013, 07:11 PM   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
I am sorry I did not take photos of the damaged trailer for the non-engineers. As I have state, I can draw the sketches and attach the calculations to prove the additional stresses for $300.00 per hour plus expenses...minimum billing 8 hours.

With Lippert's history on frames, I would not trust their judgement on much.

Also, I was contacted by a Reese (called himself an engineer) representative to stop bad mouthing their product. I asked if he would have a licensed professional engineer contact me and explain how the Goose Box worked differently. I never heard from them again. Folks, the analysis of this if 1st year engineering mechanics.

So if you want to take a chance on ruining your trailer frame...I will not stop you.

Ken
__________________

__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-26-2013, 07:43 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
I am sorry I did not take photos of the damaged trailer for the non-engineers. As I have state, I can draw the sketches and attach the calculations to prove the additional stresses for $300.00 per hour plus expenses...minimum billing 8 hours.

With Lippert's history on frames, I would not trust their judgement on much.

Also, I was contacted by a Reese (called himself an engineer) representative to stop bad mouthing their product. I asked if he would have a licensed professional engineer contact me and explain how the Goose Box worked differently. I never heard from them again. Folks, the analysis of this if 1st year engineering mechanics.

So if you want to take a chance on ruining your trailer frame...I will not stop you.

Ken
So you request $300/hr to educate us "non-engineers". Mighty generous of you.

Forgive this "non-engineer" (which on another note is very presumptuous and arguably pompous, of you) for not blindly believing you, for having the audacity of questioning your uncorroborated conclusions based upon the conclusions of the frame designers, for wanting to uncover the facts from both sides of the issue before making an informed decision. I guess I'm just supposed to believe because you said it. My bad...

Sorry, but you've given me no reason to think your opinions, and that's all they are until you back it up with fact, are any more valid than anyone else's.
__________________

__________________
"Do one brave thing today...then run like ****!"
dbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 07:46 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWD View Post
I have yet to see a clearly documented account where a gn adapter has caused issues on a fw. Here say and rumours dont count. Pictures along with documented evidence does.
I'll call the customer's whose trailers I've had to drill ~12 1/2" holes to "try" to reattach the body to the frame. Helped, didn't solve it.
One was a Keystone toy hauler with a very high GVWR. Thought with a high GVWR that the frame would be strong enough? Ha.

Get the adapter, and then I'll help you fix it.
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 07:58 PM   #18
SWD
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
I'll call the customer's whose trailers I've had to drill ~12 1/2" holes to "try" to reattach the body to the frame. Helped, didn't solve it.
One was a Keystone toy hauler with a very high GVWR. Thought with a high GVWR that the frame would be strong enough? Ha.

Get the adapter, and then I'll help you fix it.
Sorry but this is all here say folks. When researching the internet I have yet to find one picture or document that describes the issue with GN adapters. Doesnt mean I doesnt exist but its sure not the problem you make it out to be.
__________________
SWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:09 PM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
dbear

I do not charge to explain mechanical things to people that have a desire to learn. I actually enjoy the teaching aspect of this forum. Others are charged for my time.

Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:38 PM   #20
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWD View Post
Sorry but this is all here say folks.
Actually, it's not HEARSAY at all, but direct evidence since the poster has direct knowledge of the situation given the fact that he worked on the damaged 5th wheels.

Quote:
Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone. In general the witness will make a statement such as, "Sally told me Tom was in town," as opposed to "I saw Tom in town," which is direct evidence.
Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: On the road
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWD View Post
I have yet to see a clearly documented account where a gn adapter has caused issues on a fw. Here say and rumours dont count. Pictures along with documented evidence does.
Personally I would never use or recommend the use of a goose neck on a fiver, however it is you trailer so go ahead and do as YOU wish.
__________________
'13 Ram Laramie 3500, Aisin auto,4:10, Reese adapter and 20K hitch, '10 HitchHiker 36LKRSB
Larry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:46 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
Ok, your mind is made up.


Ahem; we sell a wonderful Andersen GN adapter. Easy install. Adjustable height. Threads right onto the pin box. Best thing out there.
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:46 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Chandler, Az
Posts: 112
I love this thread. I used to try to explain it,...it's worthless to try,...at least to me. I think the people that may have ever had any problems with GN adapters probably never took any pics and they probably aren't a member of any rv forum.
__________________
Bigg-limo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:51 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
goin' RV Boondocking: The Beginning... The Failure of the Fifth Wheel Pin Box
Here's your frame failure with a GN adapter. I'm just good at Google game I guess.
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Sorry, but you've given me no reason to think your opinions, and that's all they are until you back it up with fact, are any more valid than anyone else's.
Very wise choice. Some folks know more than the product engineers. Hmmm did I hear a echo.

The Reese Goose box does not apply the same leverage as a regular GN adapter. The regular GN adapter has much more torque applied as it sits 90 degrees to the pin box mount flange. Sudden braking or dumpin' the clutch on my Cummins really loads the leverage.

The beauty of the Goose box is according to Reese its leverage is dampened considerably by the angle from pin to the center of that attach point. It doesn't take a engineer to see how it works and why.

We can all google and show threads on the slant we want. I could spend a few min and find posts of folks using a Goose box or any type of GN adapter and have no problems. Or trailer mfg that use them as a option for their customers.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:29 PM   #26
SWD
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
goin' RV Boondocking: The Beginning... The Failure of the Fifth Wheel Pin Box
Here's your frame failure with a GN adapter. I'm just good at Google game I guess.
No you are not my friend...I have already seen this one thanks!
Actually if you would take the time to read the blog in its entirety you will find that the blogger attributes the frame failure to other causes.....not the GN adapter.

Quote: The last thing here is this. This failure came NOT because of the Gooseneck adapter I use. If THAT was the problem it would have happened a long time ago, and the geometry simply don't support that argument.

But, if you look at that picture where I'm removing the front part of the pin box? You'll see that Jayco designed and built this rig with a "Long Style" pin box. Now... THAT is an issue.

My complaint and claim? IF you are going to utilize that sort of a design... You have to accept that you are putting a hell of a lot of stress on the frame... from the VERTICAL impacts over the many miles it will be hauled. Vertical impacts that are going to slam that frame whether it's sitting on a fifth wheel hitch or receiving those same impacts Vertically through a gooseneck adapter.

Those impacts are the SAME, with either attachment method. The geometry, the distance between the pin box king pin and the truck bed are the SAME, Fifth Wheel or Gooseneck. The lever length is the SAME. The gooseneck has greater flexibility and movement, reducing lockup over fifth wheel and REDUCING potential stresses from that but otherwise, the lever and it's forces are pretty much the same... The ROAD IMPACTS are the issue, NOT, the type of attachment.
__________________
SWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:50 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
And it's his opinion it was not the GN adapter. He has no documentation on that, and I don't believe him. Hmmmmm . . .

I've seen plenty of long pin boxes with no frame issues. None. Want to know how many I look at?
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 04:42 AM   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
The geometry that matters is the distance and angle from the pinbox frame attachment point to the ball of the gooseneck hitch. As far as the pinbox is concerned, it doesn't matter if you go between those points directly (the Goose Box) or out horizontally and then down vertically (the extended pinbox with a bolt-on vertical adapter). Note how this distance and angle differ from the 5th wheel's geometry between the pinbox frame attachment point to the hitch load plate & kingpin jaws.

This difference in geometry is where the destructive torque loading on accel/decel that can rip the pinbox from the frame comes from. It's simple engineering mechanics.

Rusty
__________________

__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th wheel



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.