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Old 03-06-2012, 07:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
I doub't many that replied negatively have ever towed a GN trailer or used a adapter but have a opinion.
Well, yes, there are valid engineering reasons that I've cited NOT to use a gooseneck adapter. So I guess you're right - some of us haven't (and wouldn't) use a gooseneck adapter on a 5th wheel, but that's because we recognize the technical risk associated with their use and have shared those risks with the OP. At the end of the day, it remains his choice to heed the warnings or to ignore them and take his chances.

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Old 03-06-2012, 09:15 PM   #30
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The problem with that thinking is your painting all 5ers with a broad brush, that in your opinion their framework won't stand up to the use of the adapter when in fact some manufacturers have recommended thier use. Some posters report their 5th wheel trailer maker has the adapter as a option.

I wouldn't use one either, for reasons different than yours, but I don't use that as a excuss to scare others that may want to. IMO new posters need both sides of the issue instead of the usual my way is best for your situation like we see on this forum.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:12 AM   #31
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If the trailer manufacturer (NOT the dealer) will approve the use of the gooseneck adapter and PUT THAT APPROVAL in writing if the 5th wheel is in warranty, then go for it.

Rusty
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:45 AM   #32
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Closest I can find to a written endorsement.
http://www.lci1.com/index.php?option...cts&Itemid=267
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:51 PM   #33
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BCooke, the problem with the Goose Box is it still has the same issue with the transfer of the stresses to the frame where the pin box attaches. The Reese offering is just another color cat, but still a cat.

As Rusty has noted and we have discussed in detail in past post, the engineering mechanics behind the analysis is simple first year engineering and physics. People that do not understand lever arms and stresses can never be convinced of this basic engineering fact.

Ken
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:45 PM   #34
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I have 10 years experience pulling the same 35 ft toyhauler.The first 4 years as a 5ver with a 250 p/s Ford and the last 6 years with a gooseneck adapter on a one ton Dodge. Both pulled well . Gn does better on rough terrain. 5th wheel is much easier to hook up. My physical disabilites (hip-replacement and bad back) became a problem to crawl in the bed to hook safety chains, so I recently bought a MH. My 2 cents is for the 5th wheel.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #35
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Well, being new to 5th wheeling I already installed an Anderson adapter, then took it to a welding shop and had them weld it to the pin area. I also had them weld a piece of 3/8 flat stock across the pin box and then another 3"- cut and welded at an angle from the pin to the flat cross bar.

So, I already have my t#t stuck in the wringer before I knew about this Ie've been fixing on this 5'r for the last 8 months and don't want to sell it nor keep throwing money away either .... does anyone know or have ideas of what else may need to be beefed up? This is a O6 Serra 36' 3 slide about 14.5k loaded and I anticipate pulling a trailer (small car & music equipment) about 4k or less... so pulling no more then 18.5k in the train.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
If the trailer manufacturer (NOT the dealer) will approve the use of the gooseneck adapter and PUT THAT APPROVAL in writing if the 5th wheel is in warranty, then go for it.

Rusty
That's the bottom line.

As I noted in an earlier post, Montana would void the warranty if somebody used a GN with their Lippert frame...that's all I needed to know. Just because somebody pulled a 5th wheel with a GN for decades, means nothing, all frames are different, find out the correct info from your RV/frame manufacturer.
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:51 PM   #37
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BCooke, the problem with the Goose Box is it still has the same issue with the transfer of the stresses to the frame where the pin box attaches. The Reese offering is just another color cat, but still a cat.

As Rusty has noted and we have discussed in detail in past post, the engineering mechanics behind the analysis is simple first year engineering and physics. People that do not understand lever arms and stresses can never be convinced of this basic engineering fact.

Ken
I appreciate what you are saying and would not myself convert to a goose neck, and have stated my preferences (do not remember if it was on this forum). I am actually looking for a flat bed trailer that has a kingpin connection for my 5th wheel hitch. That being said, the design does exist and according to Lippert and Reese they have a solution if you have one of two frames.
As to the engineering.... I did not see the formula, so I am unaware of what forces or force reduction/redirection was included in the calculation. The 1st thing I tell someone is I do not have a physics or ME degree so have someone run the numbers. I can tell you what I received from Reese Engineering: (word for word)

Bill,

We worked with Lippert when designing this product and Lippert has approved the use of this product. Now do they approve for all trailers…I don’t know. I would suggest contacting Lippert with information on your particular trailer to get their approval.

Thank You

John

FYI: I am not in a spitting contest, just making information available.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:24 PM   #38
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BCooke, the problem with the Goose Box is it still has the same issue with the transfer of the stresses to the frame where the pin box attaches. The Reese offering is just another color cat, but still a cat.

As Rusty has noted and we have discussed in detail in past post, the engineering mechanics behind the analysis is simple first year engineering and physics. People that do not understand lever arms and stresses can never be convinced of this basic engineering fact.

Ken
We all KNOW what you are saying.

I think what BCooke is saying if Lippert, the manufacturer of the pin boxes is actually SELLING the same Gooseneck Adapters everyone is claiming the pin box manufacturers say are dangerous for their products, how dangerous can Lippert THINK they really ARE? (I assume that link is a genuine Lippert web page that illustrates what they appear to either be selling, or advertising for associated companies.)

I guess you are saying that Lippert does not understand engineering mechanics, simple first year physics, or even understand lever arms and stresses.

If that's what you are saying, I am willing to accept that as your opinion I guess, since each of us is entitled to his opinion. You may well be 100% correct, in which case...

I only hope that you will take the time to contact Lippert Industries and advise them so their legal department can set up some Physics and Engineering training for their designers before they incur some serious liability for their corporation by selling (advertising, or endosing) Gooseneck Adapters like that (The Reese and Coilbert adapters are BOTH shown in the Lippert link provided).

http://www.lci1.com/index.php?option...cts&Itemid=267

I am not endorsing Gooseneck adapters, especially for heavy 5ers, but I think that Lippert at least APPEARS to be giving tacit approval to their use by acting as dealers for them, and showing them in-use on their trailer frames. And yes, Lippert COULD be absolutely wrong, as you imply, of course.
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:08 PM   #39
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With Lipperts extensive knowledge of how to built a trouble-free frame ....tongue in cheek...personally, I would not trust their engineering department.

Ken
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:20 PM   #40
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With Lipperts extensive knowledge of how to built a trouble-free frame ....tongue in cheek...personally, I would not trust their engineering department.

Ken
I hear you, but then again, so many of our trailers come with Lippert that we are a captive audience.

I'm sure they CAN build a stronger product. The problem is that they are trying to meet a price-point for the RV industry, and they end up with a marginal product.

It always frosts me when I know for a few dollars would make a product superior by a wide margin.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:48 PM   #41
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Bob, and the way to stop this is to stop buying the junk they build. Insist on a better designed product by voting with the absence of your money. But this topic is getting a bit far from the OP?

Ken
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:15 PM   #42
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Bob, and the way to stop this is to stop buying the junk they build. Insist on a better designed product by voting with the absence of your money. But this topic is getting a bit far from the OP?

Ken
It is, but it's a valid direction (especially since we've pretty much worn out the gooseneck adapter thread).

The problem is that the manufacturers know that people are price sensitive, so they try to cut corners to maximize profits, and that means the low-cost bidder on components, and it's all down hill from there. Frankly I am appalled at the quality, or lack thereof of the coaches out there, but I DO understand the process, so I can't totally blame the makers, either. Truth be told, I am amazed that most RVs last as long as they do in the real world.

Then, a lot of people like me are used-buyers, so we depend on what's already out there, and don't get heard (or cared about) by the makers. It's the same with cars and everything else. If there's any extra money, the manufacturers put it into bling, rather than structural improvements that make better (not fancier) products. Bling sells.

I am afraid if someone BUILT quality, they'd have a hard time making a go of it today unless they were already well-established, like an Airstream, where folks are willing to pay up.

Maybe rather than buying our RVs already finished, we should see them in the construction process before buying, so we'd see more than the pretty skin. But then we'd maybe insist on quality that would price us out of the market, too.
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