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Old 06-21-2014, 04:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by lanerd View Post
I hear this answer all the time, but you have to remember, this is only true when traveling... once set up in camp, the overall size is the same (given they are both the same length). And since you don't live in it when traveling this answer has no meaning...as far as living space is concerned.
Ron
But you also forgot the 3 ft. tongue on the front of every TT. So, same total length really does means 3 ft less living space or same coach length means 3 ft. longer unit.

Furthermore, numerous campsites have serious length problems for accommodating both trailer and tow vehicle while unhooked. With a fifth wheel in many cases, the tow vehicle can be partially backed under the trailer, which is not possible with a TT.

While not everyone prefers a fifth wheel, there are real reasons why the fifth wheel is the most popular type of RV.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:54 PM   #16
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Pdapete,
The problem with a 5th wheel vs tt is that with your truck, your choices are very limited because of the GVWR of the truck. The GVWR is between 9200 and 9500# and the truck weighs at least 8000#, this leaves between 1200 and 1500# of pin weight that you can have without going over your GVWR. With the pin weight at 20% of the 5ers GVWR, this makes the max 5er GVWR between 6000 and 7500#. A tt has between 12 and 15% of the weight on the tongue, which with the same 1200 to 1500# lets you haul a tt with a GVWR of around 10,000# give or take a few hundred #.
Frank
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:20 AM   #17
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Pdapete,
The problem with a 5th wheel vs tt is that with your truck, your choices are very limited because of the GVWR of the truck. The GVWR is between 9200 and 9500# and the truck weighs at least 8000#, this leaves between 1200 and 1500# of pin weight that you can have without going over your GVWR. With the pin weight at 20% of the 5ers GVWR, this makes the max 5er GVWR between 6000 and 7500#. A tt has between 12 and 15% of the weight on the tongue, which with the same 1200 to 1500# lets you haul a tt with a GVWR of around 10,000# give or take a few hundred #.
Frank
Frank, 3/4 ton diesel pickups do not weigh 8000 lbs. Last time I weighed mine it was around 7000 lbs. And that was with an aftermarket 45 gal fuel tank and custom utility bed. Guaranteed, the majority of fivers being pulled by 3/4 ton diesel trucks weigh more than your target of 6000 to 7500 lbs and many are not exceeding their GVWRs. If what you claim were true why would anyone give up 2500 to 4000 lbs of trailer weight just to pull a small fiver vs. a larger TT?
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:50 AM   #18
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Update

Thanks for the help. I think I got it, but let me give you some numbers, and I very much welcome your input.

Ford F250 Super Duty Lariat 4x4 6.0L diesel crew cab.

GVWR - 10000
RGAWR - 6100
FGAWR - 5200
vehicle weight - 6538
passengers and cargo limit - 2373

The 5th wheel we have found and really liked:

Cougar by Keystone Model 25RKS
weight - 6425
carrying capacity - 3495
hitch weight - 1120

At this point, I am more confused than ever. The Fifth Wheel Weight Calculator that was posted on this thread (thank you Gordon Dewald) came up with a maximum towing capacity of 4,480. That doesn't seem right, but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by dayle1 View Post
But you also forgot the 3 ft. tongue on the front of every TT. So, same total length really does means 3 ft less living space or same coach length means 3 ft. longer unit.

Furthermore, numerous campsites have serious length problems for accommodating both trailer and tow vehicle while unhooked. With a fifth wheel in many cases, the tow vehicle can be partially backed under the trailer, which is not possible with a TT.

While not everyone prefers a fifth wheel, there are real reasons why the fifth wheel is the most popular type of RV.
5th wheels are not the most popular type of RV. TT's out sell them by a good margin. 5th wheels are just more popular with the FT crowd than TT's.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:08 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Pdapete View Post
Thanks for the help. I think I got it, but let me give you some numbers, and I very much welcome your input.

Ford F250 Super Duty Lariat 4x4 6.0L diesel crew cab.

GVWR - 10000
RGAWR - 6100
FGAWR - 5200
vehicle weight - 6538
passengers and cargo limit - 2373

The 5th wheel we have found and really liked:

Cougar by Keystone Model 25RKS
weight - 6425
carrying capacity - 3495
hitch weight - 1120

At this point, I am more confused than ever. The Fifth Wheel Weight Calculator that was posted on this thread (thank you Gordon Dewald) came up with a maximum towing capacity of 4,480. That doesn't seem right, but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.
You have plenty of truck for that 5'er. We tow a similar sized 5'er with our Ram 2500. Our pin is 1800lbs and the 5'er is 9000lbs loaded. Perfect match IMO. I'm over my trucks GVWR by 200lbs but under the RAWR by 1100lbs and under the GCVWR by 4000lbs. I'd still tow bigger if I ever decide to upgrade. I'd have no issues going 11-12,000 loaded with a pin in the 22-2400lb range. That would still put me under the GCVWR and RAWR.
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Old 06-22-2014, 04:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Pdapete View Post
Thanks for the help. I think I got it, but let me give you some numbers, and I very much welcome your input.

Ford F250 Super Duty Lariat 4x4 6.0L diesel crew cab.

GVWR - 10000
RGAWR - 6100
FGAWR - 5200
vehicle weight - 6538
passengers and cargo limit - 2373

The 5th wheel we have found and really liked:

Cougar by Keystone Model 25RKS
weight - 6425
carrying capacity - 3495
hitch weight - 1120

At this point, I am more confused than ever. The Fifth Wheel Weight Calculator that was posted on this thread (thank you Gordon Dewald) came up with a maximum towing capacity of 4,480. That doesn't seem right, but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.
Missing the other gross number..... .... bring on more confusion. Nah.
GCVW (gross weight of the two vehicles together)
With 3.73 the GCVW should be around 23000.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BCooke View Post
Missing the other gross number..... .... bring on more confusion. Nah.
GCVW (gross weight of the two vehicles together)
With 3.73 the GCVW should be around 23000.
The GCVW would be a good number to have. In order to do that the year of the truck will be a factor.

As well some loaded weights are of benefit.

Loaded weight of truck, rear axle weight (loaded with fuel, propane tanks, bikes, dog, DW, etc). Add about 300 lbs for the 5 wheel hitch and mounting hardware.

The advertised hitch weight of the trailer is misleading. It is with the trailer empty. After you add propane, water, food, clothing, dishes, etc) the weight on the pin will be substantially higher, probably closer to 2,000 - 2,500 lbs.

If you can get a real weight of your truck and the difference between the rear axle weight +300 lb for the 5 wheel and the RGAWR is 2500 lbs you should be able to tow the 5er you have picked as long as the GVWR is not exceeded. If the 2500 lbs added to the actual weight of the truck + 300 lbs subtracted from the GVWR is more than 2500 lbs you are good to go but should check the last number for GCWR. If the real weight of the truck, the GVW of the trailer and 300 lbs for the hitch is less than the GCWR of your truck everything is OK: Off you go - Happy Camping!

The numbers I have used are on the high side as I believe it is better to have more truck than less truck. In spite of all the assurances from guys who have successfully towed large trailers with small trucks I remain unconvinced of the wisdom of doing so. I work on the axiom that there are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots.

Here is another website but you will need more information for it as well. This one asks you for scale weights with the trailer attached. Since you do not have them you can estimate.

fifthwheelst.com
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cumminsfan View Post
5th wheels are not the most popular type of RV. TT's out sell them by a good margin. 5th wheels are just more popular with the FT crowd than TT's.
Am not going to dispute this but it did trigger an interesting memory.

Back in the good old days dad would bolt on the bumper hitch on the Chevy, hitch up the trailer while mom loaded enough stuff in the trailer to last for a week or two. An off we would go. Those were the days when there were no seat belts, kids would lay in the back window (our dad did not let us because we would fight over it so neither could go up there) and we had a three on the tree.

Back in the good old days. Sigh . . . .
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:39 PM   #24
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dayle1,
You are correct, most GM diesel pickups are between 7000 and 8000#, they are between 500 and 1000# lighter than an equivalent Ford. The OP said he had 4x4 6.0L Ford, and the big majority if them weigh around 8000#. My 03 dually with 2 people, hitch, 30 gal of fuel in the auxiliary tank and a full regular tank weighed in at 8000#
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
T

If you can get a real weight of your truck and the difference between the rear axle weight +300 lb for the 5 wheel and the RGAWR is 2500 lbs you should be able to tow the 5er you have picked as long as the GVWR is not exceeded. If the 2500 lbs added to the actual weight of the truck + 300 lbs subtracted from the GVWR is more than 2500 lbs you are good to go but should check the last number for GCWR. If the real weight of the truck, the GVW of the trailer and 300 lbs for the hitch is less than the GCWR of your truck everything is OK: Off you go - Happy Camping!

The numbers I have used are on the high side as I believe it is better to have more truck than less truck. In spite of all the assurances from guys who have successfully towed large trailers with small trucks I remain unconvinced of the wisdom of doing so. I work on the axiom that there are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots.

Here is another website but you will need more information for it as well. This one asks you for scale weights with the trailer attached. Since you do not have them you can estimate.

fifthwheelst.com
That should read: If the 2500 lbs added to the actual weight of the truck + 300 lbs is less that the GVWR you are good to go but should check for GCWR.

Sorry for any confusion.
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