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Old 12-07-2013, 07:37 PM   #1
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5th wheel tires and axles

Hello All. Brand new member and first post. I was hoping someone could help me out. I have a 08 Keystone Everest 343b which I bought new. I have had tons of problems with tires- fortunately have caught them before any blow outs. They lasted me about a year each ( have always replaced 4 at a time). Didn't know about the china bombs until finally researching and will be finally getting rid of them. The trailer says its dry weight is 11650 with 2370 for loading which makes it 14020. The china bombs are 3520 (235/80-R16) a tire but I want to go with the LT tires the same size which are 3042. When computing the weight the tires are carrying the tire shop told me I don't use the 14020, rather subtract the hitch weight (2020) from the total and that's what is on the tires. Is this true? I have 6k axles so I am thinking it is and will be able to get the xps ribs or duravis r250 which wouldn't give me any wiggle room with weight. Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:49 PM   #2
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Both will work fine on 6k axles. Both are a commercial grade all steel ply carcass tire. The Bridgestone M895 is the same as R250 only has a bit more aggressive tread pattern some folks like better. Any of these three tires will give you years and mile of trouble free service on your trailer.

Our 3/4 ton trucks have had 6k rear axles for 3-4 decades. For years it was the LT235/85-16 or LT245/75-16 E both at 3042 lbs that came OEM.
LT tires are a excellent upgrade from any brand ST tire.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:06 PM   #3
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Do you know if the tire shop was correct computing the weight that is actually carried on the tires?
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:15 PM   #4
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I guess my main questions is the trailer unloaded is 11650 and 2370 for allowed for loading is 14020. The hitch weight is 2020 and the tire guy is telling me the weight on the tires is the total weight of the trailer minus the hitch weight. So if I am at capacity at 14020 - 2020 hitch weight then 12K is what the load on the tires is..... per him. If this is true then with the ST tires (3520) I should of had a cushion of just over 2k. If its the total weight then I only had 60 lbs to play with. With the xps ribs or r250s if he is correct then I have 168lbs of wiggle room which is not alot; however if its the total trailer weight I will be over 1800 lbs the weight they are rated for.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:43 PM   #5
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I am in the same boat as you are. I tried to replace my china bombs with Michelin LT XPS Ribs but they were back ordered so I cancelled the order because I was taking the trailer out of state on a trip. Sure enough a tire fell apart. It did not do damage...whew. Now I will be looking again for Michelin LT XPS Ribs.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:48 PM   #6
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IMO, the main issue with ST tires on a 5er is percentage of total weight capacity the tires support. Most ST tires seem to be supporting >90% of their rated capacity continually. Also, ST tires must be operated at sidewall maximum air pressure for best performance and longevity. Carlisle Tire thinks this is so important they void the warranty if operated at less pressure.

I tired of replacing ST tires on our 15,500#GVW 5er, so I replaced them with Sailun LT 235/85R16, load range G tires. Never had a tire problem since buying them.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:49 PM   #7
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The hitch weight is on the truck. Period. Get it to a scale if you can and weigh the truck empty and the truck with the trailer attached, then the whole thing to get the weights right.

You want to get the tires that will carry the actual trailer load but at something closer to 60% of capacity rather than 100%.
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:12 AM   #8
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Thank you gents. The xps and r250 sound like they are a great tire but at capacity all of the time I am not sure they will hold up.
I will check into the Sailun, thank you.
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #9
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If you are spending too much on tire replacement, and don't want to worry about loads on the tires, consider changing out to 17.5" wheels and tires.
The 17.5" are almost exactly the same height as the 16s, so there won't be a clearance problem.
Give Scott a call at www.trailertiresandwheels.com and ask him about what to do, if you want to upsize. Pretty much guarantee this will stop any tire problems (except nails, etc) in the future.
The cost for 4 tires/wheels, mounted and balanced, and shipped to you, would be about $2k.
The 17.5" tires run from 4025lbs to 4805lbs capacity each, thus the weights they carry become a non-issue.
And, yes, the hitch weight is always going to be on the truck or the landing legs, not on the wheels/tires/axles.
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:12 PM   #10
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Lot of good advice here, and I don't have much to add. I'd reiterate that finding some truck scales and weighing hooked-up and just the truck is the only way to see where you are with respect to the limits. That data plate is only the maximum loading, it's not how YOU are loaded.

The pin weight you get from truck rear axle weight unhooked subtracted from the same number hooked-up is important. It needs to be within the payload spec for your truck.

We bought our 38' 5ver new in 2011. When I learned about all the issues people were having from the Chinese "may-pops", I ran, not walked, away from them and put on a set of Goodyear 114s. Cost for 4 new 17.5" wheels and 4 G114 tires from trailertiresandwheels.com, mounted and balanced, ready to install, came to $2,356, including shipping from Ohio to Texas.

G114s are Load Range H tires, rated for 4,540 lbs each (max) if installed on dual axles. That's much more than our trailer will ever weigh, and that's how I like it.
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racklefratz View Post
G114s are Load Range H tires, rated for 4,540 lbs each (max) if installed on dual axles. That's much more than our trailer will ever weigh, and that's how I like it.
Actually, the "dual" rating for those tires is for dual wheels, not axles - think a "dually" (dual rear wheel) truck. They are rated for 4805 lbs in single tire applications such as a 5th wheel.

I also switched to the 17.5" wheel and tire package from Scott at trailertiresandwheels.com and would highly recommend them. I went with the load range J Michelin XTA tires, but their 4805 lb rating is the same as the Goodyear G114 in the 215/75R-17.5 load range H size. The Michelins have been trouble-free for over 3 years whereas the OEM 16" Goodyear G614 RST tires (3750 lb rating) had 2 tread failures within 3 months of each other when 3 years old.

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Old 12-08-2013, 05:23 PM   #12
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I agree with those recommending 17.5's but would add switching out hubs to 7k up from 6k. Add to that having alignment checked.

That is the route I went.

Roger
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Old 12-08-2013, 06:51 PM   #13
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Actually, the "dual" rating for those tires is for dual wheels, not axles - think a "dually" (dual rear wheel) truck. They are rated for 4805 lbs in single tire applications such as a 5th wheel.
Oh. OK. Point taken.

I assumed (apparently, wrongly) that dual referred to axles, since I don't recall ever seeing a trailer with "dually" tires, like my truck has.

Wouldn't it be swell if the companies defined their terms? The tire business is complicated enough as it is.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:32 PM   #14
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These 17.5 inch trailer tires are for "high cube" trailers, car haulers, etc. that need a very low load floor. Most of them use dual wheels. Their application for 5th wheel RVs is not their intended market - we are the outlier.

When Newmar was in the 5th wheel business, they built their heavier 5th wheels with duallies, but that required a narrower frame section and larger wheel wells.

Rusty
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