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Old 08-06-2012, 08:36 PM   #15
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.....of course the salesmen said it would handle my 5er no problem.
Unfortunately, you're not the first one, nor will you be the last. This is how truck and RV salesmen as a group have earned the reputation they have. Yeah, I'm sure there are a few good ones, but those that I've encountered have been of the "your truck can tow anything I have on the lot" variety.

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Old 08-06-2012, 08:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC

Unfortunately, you're not the first one, nor will you be the last. This is how truck and RV salesmen as a group have earned the reputation they have. Yeah, I'm sure there are a few good ones, but those that I've encountered have been of the "your truck can tow anything I have on the lot" variety.

Rusty
I see lots of these heavy 5ers on the road with 2500s and 250s these guys must be way over
Also the salesmen are using there flagship truck ratings for the model sure the ford super duty F350 2 wheel drive single cab short box would handle and pull the house down , they use those ratings across the board
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:49 PM   #17
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Thanks rusty
My question now would be do people really go down the road with a maxed out gvwr on there pull trailer ?meaning can I pull this thing with just the essentials ?
Thanks
Warren&Amy
First off the trucks GVWR has no legal meaning in loads the trucks rear axle/tires can carry. So sure some folks are carrying axle/tire loads above the trucks GVWR but carrying loads under the trucks RAWR/tire capacities.

And we have folks that pull large 5th wheel trailers with pin weights in excess of the trucks RAWR/tire capacity. Its illegal and certainly not safe.

Your example : You say your trucks empty rear axle weight scales at 3550 lbs and has a 7000 lb rating. Your left with a max 3400 lbs of payload on the rear axle.

Use GVWR or RAWR for figuring loads on the rear axle/tires. Both are safe.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:18 AM   #18
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Check out this new calculator for the buyer and dealer that's smartphone compatible. http://bybrv.com
There is a better website for what you need but it's currently a commercial site. A non-commercial site will be available soon.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:03 AM   #19
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The regulations say;

1. You cannot exceed the tow vehicles GVWR.
2. You cannot exceed the RV trailers GVWR.
3. You cannot exceed the tow vehicles GCWR
.
Does your loaded trailer scale out under itís GVWR?

When you add the loaded trailerís hitch/pin weight to the loaded truck, does the added weight exceed the truckís GVWR?

Is the total scaled weight of the connected rig less than the truckís GCWR?

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Old 08-07-2012, 04:45 AM   #20
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First off the trucks GVWR has no legal meaning in loads the trucks rear axle/tires can carry.
Please be extremely careful in interpreting this statement. If, God forbid, you find yourself in an accident and wind up in a civil (tort) proceeding, a good plaintiff's attorney will make you fair game if you're exceeding ANY of the truck or RV manufacturer's weight ratings.

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Old 08-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #21
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Please be extremely careful in interpreting this statement. If, God forbid, you find yourself in an accident and wind up in a civil (tort) proceeding, a good plaintiff's attorney will make you fair game if you're exceeding ANY of the truck or RV manufacturer's weight ratings.

Rusty
It would take a pretty dumb lawyer to think he could make a civil lawsuit case ever getting into a court using the trucks GVWR as a overloaded truck. If the truck was "legally" loaded the suit would never make it to court.

If the truck was legally overloaded then the truck operator has left himself open for a civil lawsuit/vehicle impoundment/fines/jail time/etc.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:44 PM   #22
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It would take a pretty dumb lawyer to think he could make a civil lawsuit case ever getting into a court using the trucks GVWR as a overloaded truck. If the truck was "legally" loaded the suit would never make it to court.
A civil attorney can build a case for negligence based on nothing more than not having taken the actions a reasonable and prudent person would have taken under the same circumstances. The defendant is then left to prove that operating above the limits established by the manufacturer when the manufacturer has stated that "Neither GVWRs nor GAWRs are to be exceeded" constitutes a reasonable and prudent action. In civil court, a jury only has to determine that it's more likely than not that the defendant's actions were negligent, not that he/she violated any law.

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Old 08-07-2012, 08:51 PM   #23
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In civil court, anyone can file suit over just about anything. With the juries like they are today, you could get a pretty good settlement out of being intentionally overloaded by exceeding the manufacturers ratings.

Jim, it is pretty simple to read the manufacturers owners manual and tow rating guide. They all state that you should not exceed GVWR, GCWR or GAWR. They do not state that you have choice of following 1 or 2, but are within ratings when all 3 are met.

Ken
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:58 PM   #24
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I appreciate the debate that I seem to have started, as I personally have learned a great deal reading you folks replies .I have the tel all numbers of weights from the scale today. they are as follows .

My T.V. 1/2 tank of fuel approx 150 lbs my Reese 18 k hitch ( that's obvious Lol) and me 180 lbs

My trailer loaded to where we would set out on the road, 2 half full propane tanks approx 30 pounds , fridge is full, pantry full as we put it .kids cloths our cloths ,basement our fire pit ,sun tent chairs ground cover and so on 1/2 tank of fresh water approx 40 gallons, other tanks prob 2 or 3 gal in each , in back tall storage have the tools compressor BBQ etc . I can't see us adding much more .

Front axel in the middle of the scale 5026.5 lbs
Rear axel in the middle of the scale 5842.6 lbs
Tandem trailer axel in middle of the scale 13,205.6

Thank you
Warren & Amy
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:06 PM   #25
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Trailer axels and tires rated for 7,000 each
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:50 AM   #26
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The load on your truck (GVWR) is 10,869.1# which is under your GVWR or 11,500# so you are good here (630.9# under the truck rating). You need to watch the weight as trailers are like people, they tend to gain weight with age.

The total combined weight is 24, 074.7# (GCW).

I did not see your truck GCWR. As long as it is higher than the 24,074.7# you are good here as well.

With the 7000# axles, you have a bit under 800# reserve in the capacity. You need to check the ratings on your tires. Trailer manufacturers are bad about putting the lowest rated tire thay can get by with. If you can, you need to check the load on each axle to see if you are putting too much weight on one axle. Also side to side would be nice as most 5ers will be heavier to one side due to slides and lay out.

Happy motoring.

Ken
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:00 PM   #27
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In civil court, anyone can file suit over just about anything. With the juries like they are today, you could get a pretty good settlement out of being intentionally overloaded by exceeding the manufacturers ratings.

Jim, it is pretty simple to read the manufacturers owners manual and tow rating guide. They all state that you should not exceed GVWR, GCWR or GAWR. They do not state that you have choice of following 1 or 2, but are within ratings when all 3 are met.

Ken
Quote:
A civil attorney can build a case for negligence based on nothing more than not having taken the actions a reasonable and prudent person would have taken under the same circumstances. The defendant is then left to prove that operating above the limits established by the manufacturer when the manufacturer has stated that "Neither GVWRs nor GAWRs are to be exceeded" constitutes a reasonable and prudent action. In civil court, a jury only has to determine that it's more likely than not that the defendant's actions were negligent, not that he/she violated any law.

Rusty
Interesting theories. Do either of you have a "credible" link of a court case to back up your opinions. I didn't think so.

The OP asked quote:
" My question now would be do people really go down the road with a maxed out gvwr on there pull trailer ?"

Another poster Mr D says "Legal (and warranty) weight limit is 11,500, no matter what the axle ratings are.'

My intent wasn't to stir the GVWR weight police types up but a informational to the OP and MR D how the real world out here legally carries weight which GVWR simply doesn't apply. Its the trucks GAWRs.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:23 PM   #28
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Interesting theories.
Perhaps you'd take what I said more seriously if it came from an attorney. Here's what Dr. Ronald B. Standler states:

Source document.

Quote:
civil law

In civil litigation, the burden of proof is initially on the plaintiff. However, there are a number of technical situations in which the burden shifts to the defendant. For example, when the plaintiff has made a prima facie case, the burden shifts to the defendant to refute or rebut the plaintiff's evidence.

In civil litigation, the plaintiff wins if the preponderance of the evidence favors the plaintiff. For example, if the jury believes that there is more than a 50% probability that the defendant was negligent in causing the plaintiff's injury, the plaintiff wins. This is a very low standard, compared to criminal law. In my personal view, it is too low a standard, especially considering that the defendant could be ordered to pay millions of dollars to the plaintiff(s).

A few tort claims (e.g., fraud) require that plaintiff prove his/her case at a level of "clear and convincing evidence", which is a standard higher than preponderance, but less than "beyond a reasonable doubt."
I believe that's totally consistent with what I stated in post #22.

Rusty
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