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Old 10-18-2015, 03:42 PM   #1
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5'VR Noob

My how things have changed. Back in 2013 the DS and I were kicking around a nice used diesel pusher. But, between work schedules and business travel, we decided to wait.

We considered an alternate, getting a smaller TT, but even then the time available to use it was very small. So the waiting continued.

Fast forward to January of 2015 when this happened to what was going to be our TV:



Don't ya just hate it when someone decides to stop on the freeway for no apparent reason?

The MegaCab got fixed but we experienced a LOT of driveability, sensor, computer and driveline problems. So, we traded it in:



2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab, Bighorn package, 6.4L HEMI, 3.73 gears.

After further discussion, instead of the DP or a TT, we'd rather have a 5'vr.

So, the search for the right 5'vr is on. Right now I am doing what I call "trailer math" to determine what I can tow and haul based on TV GVWR, trailer UVW/GVWR and TV GCVWR numbers.

We figured out that come the end of the year, with my wife "retiring" (she'll never retire completely, she'll just stop working for somebody and work for herself) so our time together and available for long weekend trips + summer vacation will increase considerably.



I'm thinkin' I am gonna need a slider maybe...
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:43 PM   #2
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Do your numbers research, but suggest you limit CGWR to 10K which means you may be looking for no more that 8K dry weight.
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaki View Post
My how things have changed. Back in 2013 the DS and I were kicking around a nice used diesel pusher. But, between work schedules and business travel, we decided to wait.

We considered an alternate, getting a smaller TT, but even then the time available to use it was very small. So the waiting continued.

Fast forward to January of 2015 when this happened to what was going to be our TV:



Don't ya just hate it when someone decides to stop on the freeway for no apparent reason?

The MegaCab got fixed but we experienced a LOT of driveability, sensor, computer and driveline problems. So, we traded it in:



2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab, Bighorn package, 6.4L HEMI, 3.73 gears.

After further discussion, instead of the DP or a TT, we'd rather have a 5'vr.

So, the search for the right 5'vr is on. Right now I am doing what I call "trailer math" to determine what I can tow and haul based on TV GVWR, trailer UVW/GVWR and TV GCVWR numbers.

We figured out that come the end of the year, with my wife "retiring" (she'll never retire completely, she'll just stop working for somebody and work for herself) so our time together and available for long weekend trips + summer vacation will increase considerably.



I'm thinkin' I am gonna need a slider maybe...
Here is the hitch that I use on my 5th whee lhttp://www.trailersaver.com/product/bd3-air-ride-5th-wheel-hitch/. We have a 32foot forest river sterling that stays in Florida. Along with our Vesta. Do not forget to include the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, ours weighs in at around 180pounds with the slider.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSmuggs View Post
Do your numbers research, but suggest you limit CGWR to 10K which means you may be looking for no more that 8K dry weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekgrr View Post
Here is the hitch that I use on my 5th whee lhttp://www.trailersaver.com/product/bd3-air-ride-5th-wheel-hitch/. We have a 32foot forest river sterling that stays in Florida. Along with our Vesta. Do not forget to include the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, ours weighs in at around 180pounds with the slider.
Thanks for the input, gents.

SkiSmuggs - Running the numbers (5'v)r UVW/GVWR, TV GVWR and the GCVWR) I am going to keep the trailer GVW to 9000 or less. That gives me some wiggle room based on the truck's GCVWR number.

Trekgrr - I have allowed for 220# for the hitch weight based on research I've done on the type of hitch I am leaning towards, i.e., a slider or 16k rated hitch with a sidewinder.

Thanks again for the info!
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:31 PM   #5
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I just put a Pullrite Superglide 2900 18k hitch in my Ram. It's more than you need but they also have a 16k model. Hitch works flawlessly! No worries about hitting the cab unless over 90*.
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:17 AM   #6
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I used a Sidewinder for 4 seasons with my F150 Short (5'7") bed. I had to replace it when I got the F350 that was too high. The Sidewinder couldn't be raised because the arm hit the mounting wings, so I replace it with a Mor/Ryde mounted in the highest position. The F350 has a 6'7" bed, the fiver has the Max Turn radius front cap, and I can make about 80 degrees with that on my Reese 16K hitch. That is plenty for most situations.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:29 AM   #7
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There will be some very nice shorter / lighter 32' to 34' 5th wheels with 3 slides that open up to provide a very nice living space. I was just looking at Grand Designs Solitudes today. Very nice rigs.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:35 PM   #8
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Check out www.fifthwheelst.com for unbiased safe towing information including tow guides and calculators. No one will look out for your safety when buying a trailer. Dealers will all tell you that you can tow whatever they think they can sell you.

You must do the math, no go by what others say they do.

Good luck in your search!!
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekgrr View Post
Here is the hitch that I use on my 5th whee lhttp://www.trailersaver.com/product/bd3-air-ride-5th-wheel-hitch/. We have a 32foot forest river sterling that stays in Florida. Along with our Vesta. Do not forget to include the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, ours weighs in at around 180pounds with the slider.
If that is using the puck system then with the attaching plate it is about 240 lbs. The BD3 alone weighs 160. Breaks down into 3 pieces counting the attaching plate and each weighs approx. 80 lbs. I would think adding the slider would weigh even more...............
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelTiger View Post
Check out www.fifthwheelst.com for unbiased safe towing information including tow guides and calculators. No one will look out for your safety when buying a trailer. Dealers will all tell you that you can tow whatever they think they can sell you.

You must do the math, no go by what others say they do.

Good luck in your search!!
Thanks for that link! Time to do some trailer math!

I don't listen to what the dealers say about what I can tow. My first visit to a lot this summer resulted in the sales person praising my truck and telling me I could "tow anything on this lot" with it. I call B.S. on that one as I know better, even being the noob that I am.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:27 PM   #11
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Here is an example of how I calculated my load weights when I bought my truck and fifth wheel. It's from a thread I started called Help! Cardinal or Open Range on page 8.

Here's a link to the full thread, however it was the last few pages that dealt with it.

HELP! Cardinal or Open Range

Maybe it can help.

Tale Of The Tape

I took my truck and filled it with fuel, my wife, my daughter, the dog, the cat, hitched up to the 5th wheel loaded with kitty litter, kibbles, clothes, Cheetos and booze, then went to the weigh scales. I weighed the loaded front and rear truck axles then 2010 Cardinal 3450RL(loaded) dual 5th wheel axles.

Here are my complete findings:

Truck Only: (original weigh-in)
Front axle: 4982 lbs
Rear axle: 3615 lbs

Truck Now Loaded Hitched to Loaded 5th Wheel :
Front axle: 4982 lbs
Rear axle: 6364 lbs
5er Dual axles: 12544 lbs

So, my assumptions are correct! When I take the truck rear axle hitched weight of 6364 lbs and subtract the truck alone rear axle weight of 3615 lbs, that gives me a 5th wheel loaded pin weight of 2749 lbs.

Therefore, with my trucks specs for towing capacity of 17050 lbs and payload of 3920 lbs for a SRW SB, I'm within spec to tow my fifth wheel with this truck.

As for the 5th Wheel, GVWR is 15915 lbs. Assuming I add my loaded dual axle weight of 12544 lbs and my loaded pin weight of 2794 lbs for a total loaded 5th wheel weight of 15293 lbs and subtract that from my GVWR of 15915 lbs, I'm under by 622 lbs.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:31 AM   #12
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Excellent work, Dogpatch and thanks for sharing. I love all the weight police projections that your truck will be over weight when they don't have the numbers and are basing it on 10-15 year old trucks. I had already guestimated that my SRW was good for a 16K GVWR fifth wheel, am currently pulling a 10K GVWR and will probably limit any future fiver to 15K GVWR just for some margin. I've certainly seen some 2500 class HD trucks pulling 16K and up fifth wheels who thought they were good.
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Old 10-22-2015, 03:16 PM   #13
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Truck GVWR and GCWR

This is an add-on to the thread I mentioned before

GVWR on my truck is 11,700 lbs.

Currently loaded with full fuel, my peeps, pets, gear and hitched to the loaded 5 th wheel, I weigh in at 11,346 lbs.

I'm under my trucks Max GVWR by 354 lbs.

My trucks Max GCWR is 25,300 lbs. My current loaded GCW is 23890 lbs. I am under the trucks rated GCWR by 1,410 lbs.

I had a pretty good idea I was okay, but this excercise taught me a lot being a first time truck and 5th wheel owner to make sure I had the right set up and stayed within weight requirements.

Sadly, I'm sure many people out there just wing it!
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Old 10-22-2015, 06:15 PM   #14
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GVWR on my truck is 10,000

UVW on my truck is 6,864

I assume I have to figure weight of fuel, gear, passengers, hitch and pin weight and add that to the UVW to get my truck GVW, right?
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