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Old 04-28-2013, 01:50 AM   #15
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Thanks. That's what I meant to say (really).


Appreciate your time.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:42 AM   #16
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Total gallons is over 96.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:46 AM   #17
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How did you get 18,500?
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteinberg48 View Post
Total gallons is over 96.
I know that only having to stop for fuel every second travel day is nice, I have 100 gal tank myself, BUT , all that weight is messing up your options as far as towing .
Probably should have said , 17,500 for trailer weight.
That's GCVW of 30,500, less the truck at GVWR 13,000.= 17,500 for total trailer weight
With the additional weigh you've given for extras ; tank and fuel ; and possible pin weight , your truck is going to be at GVWR, and even if you are under GVWR , I'll bet that your rear axle weight will be over the RAWR.
I've towed with a P/U with a 32 gal tank at 10>12 mpg, and I know that stopping for fuel every 250 miles is a pain , but, in your case, less fuel = less weight =more options, as far as towing and trailers are concerned.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #19
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I keep the mason at 50 and the spare most but YHWH fuel weight is a fraction in what I put in plus the tanks are only (main) incremental to oem weight.

I will check the rear wheel axel--thank.

I think my 5er will be about 11K.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #20
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iPhone autocorrect--sorry
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:50 PM   #21
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How do you tell real axel weight?--with 5er on? (then how?)

how do you do it without driving someplace and destroying it?

Or is this all prepurchase math. what sits in the rear axel? just the hitch and the pin weight? i am confused.

Thanks for this confused helping this newbie stay safe.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:58 PM   #22
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Real weights mean a trip to the scales. It is not scarey.

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Old 04-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #23
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With the trailer attached or just the truck?
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteinberg48 View Post
How do you tell real axel weight?--with 5er on? (then how?)

how do you do it without driving someplace and destroying it?
You won't tear up anything by exceeding the rear GAWR for a few miles. Or in your case, several miles to the nearest CAT scale.

You need a certified, automated, truck (CAT) scale that has at least 3 scale pads. Unfortunately, those are few and far between in or near The City. The closest ones to you are at:

Pilot Travel Center
I-84 Exit 6 Newburgh, NY

Tullo Truck Stop
I-95 & Exit 15 E South Kearny, NJ

I know Newburgh is not just down the street from Scarsdale, but my kids commuted from near Newburgh to downtown Manhattan for several years, so it's not too far for you to drive over and use the CAT scale.

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Or is this all prepurchase math. what sits in the rear axel? just the hitch and the pin weight? i am confused.
I wouldn't worry about axle weight until after you have the wet and loaded rig on the road. That just confuses the issue and usually doesn't tell you anything you need to know in order to match trailer to tow vehicle.

For pre-purchase math, go by the GVWR of the tow vehicle, and the probable wet and loaded hitch weight of the RV. If you don't exceed the GVWR of the truck, then you'll probably not exceed any other weight rating either.

Load the truck up with everything and every one that will be in it when towing. Driver, passenger(s), pets, toolbox full of tools, jacks, etc. Go to your nearby one-pad scale and fill up with gas, then weigh the wet and loaded truck.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR of the truck. The answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

Divide that max hitch weight by 20%, and the answer is the max GVWR of any fifth-wheel RV you should consider. Some 5ers have a little less than 20% hitch weight, but that adds more confusion, so use 20%.

Divide the max hitch weight by 15% and the answer is the max GVWR of any TT you should consider. Some TTs have a little less than 15% hitch weight, but that adds more confusion, so use 15%.

That's it. Ignore axle weight ratings, payload weight ratings, tow ratings, GCWR. If you don't exceed the GVWR of the truck, then you probably won't exceed any of those other weight ratings either.

But then trust but verify. After you buy and load up the trailer based on the above guidelines, then go to a CAT scale, fill up with gas and weigh the wet and loaded rig. Add the front and rear axle weights to compare to GVWR of the truck. Compare the rear axle weight to the rear GAWR. Compare the gross weight of truck and trailer to the GCWR of the truck. Compare the trailer axle weigh to the combined GAWR of the trailer axles. If you followed instructions on matching tow vehicle to trailer, then you won't exceed any of the weight ratings.

Notice the CAT scale didn't give us hitch weight or gross trailer weight. If you want hitch weight, to compare to your pre-purchase estimate of hitch weight, then you need to weigh the wet and loaded rig twice - once with the trailer and once without the trailer. Add the weight on the two truck axles to get GVW. GVW of the truck with the trailer tied on minus GVW of the truck without the trailer = hitch weight.

Trailer axle weight plus hitch weight = gross trailer weight.

In the real world of towing, you need to use the CAT scale once or twice during every trip. You don't care about the gross weight or GVWR of the trailer. Check the trailer axle weights against the combined trailer GAWR to see if the trailer is overloaded. Check the GVW of the truck against the GVWR of the truck to see if the truck is overloaded. Check the rear GAWR of the truck against the weight of the rear axle of the truck to see how much weight you have to spare before you overload your rear axle.


Then enjoy!
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:20 PM   #25
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This is so helpful but why does GVWR not contain the weight of the axels? I didn't understand that. Or was that axels loaded since the hitch spreads the weight?
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #26
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jsteinberg48,
If I read your post correctly, you have a 2013 silverado 3500 with DRW. The GVW is over 13,000# and the RAWR is over 9000#, I am not sure of the GCWR, but I think it is over 27,000#. I am assuming that you have the duramax with allison, not the cummins that is in your signature. The only gear available from the factory with the duramax is the 3:73, and the 6 spd allison. Even with the 96 gal of fuel, you will be within your limits with a 18,000# GVW fifth wheel. Now saying that, you do need to load up and take it to a CAT scale as mentioned above. Now if you have a SWR 3500, then you have to stay under 15,000# GVW fifth wheel to keep your weights within range.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:18 PM   #27
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This is so helpful but why does GVWR not contain the weight of the axels? I didn't understand that.
The GVWR of the pickup is the max weight that can be on both trucks axles, including hitch weight and anything else that will be in the truck and adding weight the truck axles will have have to haul - such as passengers, tools, extra fuel tanks, etc. If you exceed the GVWR of the pickup, you're overloaded.

The GVWR of the trailer is the max weight that can be on the trailer axles, plus the hitch weight of the trailer. IOW, the weight of the trailer when sitting on the scale without the pickup tied on, with tongue jack and trailer axles on the scale.

But you don't care about the GVWR of the trailer after you have bought the trailer. You care about the GVWR of the trailer only for the purpose of estimating how much hitch weight the wet and loaded trailer will have, and for computing the probable gross combined weight of your truck and trailer. After you have bought the trailer, then you care about the combined GAWR of the trailer axles compared to the trailer axle weight on the CAT scale.

With one weighing, the CAT scale won't tell you hitch weight or gross trailer weight . But you don't need either of those weights to determine if you are overloaded or not. The trailer axle weight will tell you if the trailer is overloaded. The combined weight on the truck axles will tell you if the tow vehicle is overloaded over the GVWR of the truck.

Quote:
Or was that axels loaded since the hitch spreads the weight?
You lost me there.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:06 PM   #28
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I thought the 5th wheel spreads the pin weight over both wheels or am I thinking of a WD TT hitch?
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