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01-03-2019, 02:52 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 12,995
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For those that say the fuse is missing could be right as I had a towing fuse missing but mine was for the running lights. I bought a fuse and inserted it into an empty slot and then had running lights.
This was on a Ford truck.
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01-03-2019, 04:01 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spicewood Texas (West of Austin)
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Menges
Anyone know why my batteries in my Landmark are not recharging during towing. I have power to the outlet in the truck but don't know where it goes from there. Where do I look to check the power going to the batteries. Does anyone know where I can get a wiring schematic for 2014 Heartland Landmark?
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See if this helps any. I used to own a 2013 Cyclone. I think the busbar is common in their lines, and the file name has LM in it. It could also be the 30A Auto Mini breaker. I had to replace a couple of them in my two years od ownership.
__________________
Scotty and Kristen, Airedales Dagny and Wyatt
2007 Newmar Mountain Aire 4528, 450 HP ISM, Allison 4000, 8 Lifeline AGM's
2019 F250 King Ranch 4x4 Powerstroke - SOLD
2022 F350 DRW King Ranch 4 x 4
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01-03-2019, 10:13 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbrownstein
the voltage drop in the feed will also increase in proportion to the current and the voltage at the bank will continue to drop until it hits that magic 12.9 level, after which no charging at all will occur.
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That's not true. It's impossible to have a drop that goes below the point where batteries aren't charging because then they'd be drawing no current. No current = no drop. The drop will reach an equilibrium between current and terminal voltage. There will be current going into the batteries and they will be charging depending on what the source voltage is, the series drop and bank impedance at it's SOC.
Quote:
So, the operative question is "how much current can you provide...and still keep the applied voltage high enough to actually do anything to increase the SOC?" Lower SOC batteries will draw more and exacerbate the issue.
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It comes down to time. The more series resistance you add and greater SOC you need to recover, the longer it will take to reach the end of the bulk phase. One can say there's a practical time limit (hours? days? weeks?) but you'll get there eventually if the source voltage is up to the level of the required bulk completion. So the correct way to approach it is to determine what current can be provided with a given series resistance and factor that to your recovery time based on Ah delivered. This can all be modeled in a spreadsheet if the constants are known.
Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
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01-03-2019, 11:44 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,799
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Fine, sure, but 12.9 is below the threshold of bulk completion, in fact it is below storage voltage. We are dunning a motor vehicle as well, so we don't have more than hours to get a decent increase in SOC.
I did build a spreadsheet...that is where the numbers came from and series resistance is actually what I am talking about...time stops at hours...
Besides working at the margins, is there a practical point?
__________________
Scott Brownstein
Palm Island, Florida
2015 Georgetown 335DS
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01-04-2019, 05:42 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,481
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Quote:
Fine, sure, but 12.9 is below the threshold of bulk completion
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It doesn't stay at 12.9V forever, it will climb as Ah are replaced. As long as the connection series resistance isn't more than the battery impedance at the bulk completion point, it will get there. Whether this takes place in hours, days or weeks becomes a system level issue.
Quote:
we don't have more than hours to get a decent increase in SOC.
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OK, but that is a system level issue. You can either accommodate that with the components in place or not and it's a worthwhile exercise to run the numbers and see.
Quote:
is there a practical point?
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Your point of "no charging at all will occur" is what I took issue with. "Slow" charging to be sure, but definitely not "no". If the 20% SOC scenario is typical then it's a pretty challenging ($) goal to recover a large bank in a short time. Maybe part of the answer isn't coming up with a quick recovery but mitigating the situations where 20% SOC occurs through other supplemental charging or load shedding. Ah not used don't need to be replaced.
Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
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01-04-2019, 06:31 AM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 26
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Having a residential refrigerator and the same challenges, I think I have found the answer. Check out the charger in the link below.
My plan is to run #2 AWG from the battery to the seven way plug location in the bed of my truck. More of the same up through the king pin and into the front of the coach — with Anderson connectors. Of course I will put a catastrophic circuit breaker on both the truck and trailer side.
On the truck side, I will install a solenoid that will only supply power to the #2 wire when the truck is running.
Coming off the circuit breaker in the trailer, I will install an in-line 60 amp fuse in the trailer, and connect it to the charger on the link below.
I also plan to install 500 W of solar on the roof of the coach, and connect it to the charger in the link below.
In this configuration, between the sun and or the truck, my batteries should always stay topped off with 40a and correct voltage. ( I am installing two, 100 ah AGM, group 31, Trojan batteries. )
However, I have run into a snag, and I would appreciate the input of smart people here who have contributed above, or others, please.
I have a modern WFCO 75 amp supposedly smart converter/charger .
I called WFCO to run this past their tech support, and they told me any other charger and then theirs in the circuit will ruin their converter.
I find it super hard to believe, as my coach is prewired for up to 10 A of solar,and scouring the Internet for solar kits, I never see any kind of DC transfer switch to take the controller out of the circuit before solar charging begins.
Is there any validity to this? Or is it fine to have multiple ways of charging the battery without first isolating that WFCO converter?
https://www.etrailer.com/Battery-Cha...SABEgJMZ_D_BwE
__________________
Bob
2019 F-350 DRW / Reese Elite 25k / 2019 Coachmen Brookstone 395RL
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01-04-2019, 09:34 AM
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#21
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 26
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Update to above post:
After more research my original plan was correct and there is no danger to the converter/charger with my current plan.
__________________
Bob
2019 F-350 DRW / Reese Elite 25k / 2019 Coachmen Brookstone 395RL
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01-04-2019, 10:36 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Excel Owners Club Winnebago Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 6,789
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I think you're headed in the right direction. With 500 watts of solar I doubt that what you can get from the ruck will make enough of a difference to justify the costa and effort of that wiring setup. It's not hard to run few calculations to determine the sweet spot for amount of solar you would need.
I installed 1050 watts of solar with a Morningstar 60 MPPT controller last April. At that time I turned off the breaker to the 120 to 12 v converter and have not used it since. Sure I have the factory #10 charge lead from the truck while driving, but don't even consider that to be significant against the gain from the solar. I over sized the solar enough to compensate for leaving the panels flat and low solar angles when in Alaska and winter time down south. I checked yesterday on SoC since we've had several days of snow accumulation and heavy cloud cover, still at 100%. Even in Alaska this summer with heavy clouds and partial shading from trees the batteries reached 100% by 9-10AM after running the furnace fan all night. Of course having 20+ hours of some day light did not hurt those numbers. It was still generating limited solar power at midnight, nice. For reference, the rig has four 6 volt CG batteries with 460AHr total capacity.
My point is to forget charging from the truck and put that money into the solar system. Works while driving or stopped!
__________________
Fred & Denise (RVM157) New Mexico
2007 Excel Classic 30RSO & Coach House 272XL E450
2007 RAM 3500, Diesel, 6Spd Auto, SWD, 4x4, CC & LB
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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01-04-2019, 11:41 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,692
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Hummmmmmm
Wonder what happened to OP and HIS post
__________________
I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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01-04-2019, 01:50 PM
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#24
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarebear.nm
I think you're headed in the right direction. With 500 watts of solar I doubt that what you can get from the ruck will make enough of a difference to justify the costa and effort of that wiring setup. It's not hard to run few calculations to determine the sweet spot for amount of solar you would need.
I installed 1050 watts of solar with a Morningstar 60 MPPT controller last April. At that time I turned off the breaker to the 120 to 12 v converter and have not used it since. Sure I have the factory #10 charge lead from the truck while driving, but don't even consider that to be significant against the gain from the solar. I over sized the solar enough to compensate for leaving the panels flat and low solar angles when in Alaska and winter time down south. I checked yesterday on SoC since we've had several days of snow accumulation and heavy cloud cover, still at 100%. Even in Alaska this summer with heavy clouds and partial shading from trees the batteries reached 100% by 9-10AM after running the furnace fan all night. Of course having 20+ hours of some day light did not hurt those numbers. It was still generating limited solar power at midnight, nice. For reference, the rig has four 6 volt CG batteries with 460AHr total capacity.
My point is to forget charging from the truck and put that money into the solar system. Works while driving or stopped!
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Of course! Simply turn off the converter!
I will still probably do both because I like redundancy. Thanks!
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01-04-2019, 01:51 PM
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#25
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
Hummmmmmm
Wonder what happened to OP and HIS post
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If OP thinks I hijacked his thread, I would certainly apologize. I thought my posts were exactly on point.
:-/
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01-04-2019, 02:01 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Aldergrove, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarebear.nm
I over sized the solar enough to compensate for leaving the panels flat and low solar angles when in Alaska and winter time down south. I checked yesterday on SoC since we've had several days of snow accumulation and heavy cloud cover, still at 100%. Even in Alaska this summer with heavy clouds and partial shading from trees the batteries reached 100% by 9-10AM after running the furnace fan all night.
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Your experience is considerably different than mine. Granted, I only have 160 watts of solar on the roof but in storage these days it is getting direct southern exposure for as many hours as we have sun and my solar charger is indicating maybe 5.6 Ah going in on a good day (but often only 1 Ah if overcast or raining), unlike the 50 - 70 Ah going in during our summer season.
Not meaning to be argumentative, just noting a very different experience with solar up here in the Canadian PNW.
__________________
TT: 2018 Outdoors RV Blackrock 20RD "Rolly House"
TV: 2016 Ford F150 XLT FX4 2.7EB EAT6
Aldergrove, British Columbia
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01-04-2019, 03:11 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 243
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A friend of mine had the same problem with his landmark. The 30 amp fuse must be reset manually. It's not an auto reset.
__________________
Dave & Brenda
2007 Chevy 2500 Duramax
2012 Sabre 31 RETS 5'er
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01-05-2019, 06:02 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spicewood Texas (West of Austin)
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h20ski
A friend of mine had the same problem with his landmark. The 30 amp fuse must be reset manually. It's not an auto reset.
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That's the one coming from the converter that is notorious for tripping and not charging the batteries. It has a tiny reset button on the side. The one coming from the tow vehicle shows to be an AUTO Reset in the schematic in Post #10.
__________________
Scotty and Kristen, Airedales Dagny and Wyatt
2007 Newmar Mountain Aire 4528, 450 HP ISM, Allison 4000, 8 Lifeline AGM's
2019 F250 King Ranch 4x4 Powerstroke - SOLD
2022 F350 DRW King Ranch 4 x 4
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