By The Numbers - Part 1, GVWR and Pin Weight

[Brad W]

Hi,

Originally posted on a Ford site since much of my questions are in the context of the Ford TV options. Didn't get much (actually none so far) response, so I figured I'd come bug you all. I don't know, maybe it was my bad for thinking I could put it all in one post. This time I'll break it down into parts.

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RV manufacturers list the pin weight of the trailer. I think I've seen here a safe number to use for a loaded trailer is 25% of the actual trailer weight.
This tells me a trailer with a GVWR of 16,000lbs would have somewhere roughly 4000lb pin weight. This seems extreme.

Am I missing something here?

The Ford specs say the pin weight should be 15% of the trailer. That puts the same noted trailer at 2400lb pin weight, which is more in line with what the manufacturers advertise.

Thanks

[kcmusa]

you may be mixing TT with 5th wheels
5th wheels that say about 20%
TT that say about 10-15%

[Brad W]

screenshot from the Ford F series brochure...



This PDF

[sonshineclg]

I believe the RV manufacturers pin weight is not reliable, but neither is their claims to quality or 4 season RV. If you can, go to www.changingears.com and select "understanding weights." (There are others) This should give you a more accurate pin weight. I've been in RVs most of my life; from building my own, rebuilding, repairing, etc and it has been my experience the closer you get to manufacturers the less reliable the info, with the exceptions of Foretravel and New Horizons (I'm sure there are a few others). The most honest info will be RVers with nothing to gain except helping.

[sonshineclg]

May I ask why you want this info? Curious? Buying a truck, TT, or 5er?

[Twilightzone]

>"This tells me a trailer with a GVWR of 16,000lbs would have somewhere roughly 4000lb pin weight. This seems extreme."

I picked '25%' to give a big safety margin.
Most 5th wheels will have a 'posted' (empty) pin weight.

Examples:
Arctic Fox 27
Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.): 7782
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.): 1868 (20% of Gross Dry Weight)
Net Carrying Capacity: 3750
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.: 9650
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.: 13400

Arctic Fox 29-S
Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.): 8545
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.): 2663 (16% of Gross Dry Weight)
Net Carrying Capacity: 5392
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.: 11208
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.: 16600

Depending on how much you load your trailer 'up'... the hitch/pin weight
will go up... and that depends on where you put the weight in the trailer,
forward of the axles... or aft of the axles.
Ideally you will run both fore and aft to keep the trailer 'in balance'.

The above AF 29-S trailer has a big 'load' capacity (5,392 lbs).
Other trailers may have much smaller load capacities.

[Brad W]

Originally Posted by sonshineclg

May I ask why you want this info? Curious? Buying a truck, TT, or 5er?

both. right now I have neither and I'm doing the research to understand what I'll need in a TV to tow whichever trailer I end up with

edit: this is research for a 5th wheel and TV

[Brad W]

Originally Posted by Twilightzone

>"This tells me a trailer with a GVWR of 16,000lbs would have somewhere roughly 4000lb pin weight. This seems extreme."

I picked '25%' to give a big safety margin.
Most 5th wheels will have a 'posted' (empty) pin weight.

Examples:
Arctic Fox 27
Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.): 7782
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.): 1868 (20% of Gross Dry Weight)
Net Carrying Capacity: 3750
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.: 9650
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.: 13400

Arctic Fox 29-S
Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.): 8545
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.): 2663 (16% of Gross Dry Weight)
Net Carrying Capacity: 5392
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.: 11208
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.: 16600

Depending on how much you load your trailer 'up'... the hitch/pin weight
will go up... and that depends on where you put the weight in the trailer,
forward of the axles... or aft of the axles.
Ideally you will run both fore and aft to keep the trailer 'in balance'.

The above AF 29-S trailer has a big 'load' capacity (5,392 lbs).
Other trailers may have much smaller load capacities.

so.... using 20% of the GVWR seems like a likely good number to use for estimating purposes, yes?

[sonshineclg]

Originally Posted by Brad W

so.... using 20% of the GVWR seems like a likely good number to use for estimating purposes, yes?

Really like your research! Most don't do this. As they say, "Figures don't lie, but liars do figure." Keep collecting data and you will get a more accurate/true GVWR to PW ratio.

[Brad W]

Thanks. I'm not really needing an exact pin weight today, just a general guideline to use for making sure the TV is appropriate to the trailer.

Bottom line is I'm trying to avoid a dual rear wheel TV. By understanding the numbers, I can know where my limit is on trailer GVWR before I'm forced into a dually

[sonshineclg]

Originally Posted by Brad W

both. right now I have neither and I'm doing the research to understand what I'll need in a TV to tow whichever trailer I end up with

edit: this is research for a 5th wheel and TV

You are doing exactly the right thing first. Research is free. Repairing an undersized truck is not. In selecting a TV do not skimp. I'm a full timer, and I cannot begin to count the many times I've seen squatted vehicles waiting to be a disaster and the rigs at the side of the road with either the smell of burnt tranny fluid or smoke bellowing from the hood. I'm an over-killer. My TV is a International 4700LP DT530. If I were you, I'd find the minimum you need then add about 15%. That way, if you need to go bigger in RV, then you can keep at least the truck, IMHO. Best of luck. Luck being defined as, "When preparation and opportunity meet."

[Duoglide1]

My HitchHiker at max gross weight is 17400 and the pin is 4125# weighed @ Escapees smart weigh so 23% on this one.

[Brad W]

Originally Posted by Duoglide1

My HitchHiker at max gross weight is 17400 and the pin is 4125# weighed @ Escapees smart weigh so 23% on this one.

wow, good info.

I think I'm just gonna have to wrap my head around running a dually

[JDT]

My gross weight is 15,500, loaded. My pin weight, loaded, is 3100 = 20%. Weighed on certified truck scales. The advertised dry pin weight was 2685, if I remember right. With a Splendide washer/dryer sitting on the nose along with a closet full of clothes and stuff in the bay storage, it adds up. I was under my weights for my previous GMC 3500 srw except for the cargo capacity. It was a little too close for my comfort so we upgraded to the dually, which may be more than we need but it rides and handles great.