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Old 03-02-2015, 11:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by FastEagle View Post
The last time I counted there were still 22 states that allow people to ride in travel trailers and fifth wheel trailers at highway speeds.

There are two very powerful enterprises involved with DOT certified tires. Vehicle manufacturers and tire manufacturers. Vehicles are end items. Therefore, their builders are responsible for the equipment used in their construction and certification. Tire manufacturers build tires to satisfy the needs of the vehicle manufacturers. The ruling body (DOT) has a long standing rule (regulation) that places the sole responsibility for tire selection in the hands of the vehicle manufacturer. In the many rules used for vehicle manufacturing you will find the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Within the FMVSS are the regulations that direct the vehicle manufacturer to select tires appropriate for each vehicle fitment. Then there is the recommended inflation pressure (s), set by the vehicle manufacturer and the GVWR and GAWR, set by the vehicle manufacturer.

The dilemma for RV trailer tire fitments arise when replacements are needed. Special trailer tires (ST) are not compatible with other tire designs. They are built with larger, stronger cording materials that will provide more load capacity than like sizes from other designs.

Manufacturers of tires from other designs cannot recommend their tires over the vehicle manufactures OE design selections. I can’t even imagine the millions of dollars in fines and penalties it would cost a tire manufacturer that did and his recommendations caused a catastrophic failure.

So, no matter what the “word” is or what the dealer or retailer says, misapplications are risky. The most risky is the replacement that doesn’t have as much load capacity as the OE tires.

The maximum load rating molded in to the sidewall of DOT certified tires is the only certified figure for that tire. It’s approved by the Tire & Rim association (TRA) and certified by the DOT.


FastEagle
Fast,
I curious how many different ST and different LT tires have you done a material analysis on to support your contention about the body cord strength? or have you formed this opinion based on the PR and advertising claims form a few distributors?

I am not saying the statement is never true but I know for a fact that there are tens of thousands of tires with different Load Range (400#+ difference in load capacity) in the same size with identical body cord size.
Body fabric is not the only difference between tires.
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Old 03-02-2015, 11:20 AM   #30
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The Sailun S637 is a LT tire. It's construction mirrors that of the Goodyear G614 so it also needs to be mounted on 16X6.5" high load capacity rims rated at 3750# at 110 psi.

It's always a problem describing the difference in tire load capacity between the ST and LT tires. They are different constructions using different sized building materials.

A stainless steel bolt may be of the same size and dimension as a titanium bolt. However, the titanium bolt may be much stronger because of the materials it's manufactured from.

FastEagle

On edit: Sailun Commercial Truck Tires: S637 Premium Regional All Position
I like your example of Stainless vs Titanium bolt. Same can be said for a GR5 vs GR8 bolt. They have different head markings even with the same thread pitch.

I have to admit I don't understand why so many seem to have difficulty in understanding that a P235/75R15 is not the same as a LT235/75R15

or that an ST235/85R16 LR-c is not the same as a LT235/85R16 LR-E

One thing that contributes to this are the sloppy tire companies that don't provide the correct nomenclature for their product as Salrun and Carlisle both do on their web sites. They certainly are helping educate their customers.
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Old 03-02-2015, 11:59 AM   #31
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Fast,
I curious how many different ST and different LT tires have you done a material analysis on to support your contention about the body cord strength? or have you formed this opinion based on the PR and advertising claims form a few distributors?

I am not saying the statement is never true but I know for a fact that there are tens of thousands of tires with different Load Range (400#+ difference in load capacity) in the same size with identical body cord size.
Body fabric is not the only difference between tires.
I'm not formally educated in any form of tire engineering. I do a lot of research. But, even there, each expert has their own method of presentation. Dr. John Daws provides a lot of very informative publications on the net and is probably my favorite technical information source.

Without a better reference, the manufacturer of the tire must be held accountable for the information they provide to the public. If their basic information says they use larger cording materials to help produce a stronger carcass I don't have the background knowledge to dispute them.

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Old 03-02-2015, 04:48 PM   #32
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I'm not formally educated in any form of tire engineering. I do a lot of research. But, even there, each expert has their own method of presentation. Dr. John Daws provides a lot of very informative publications on the net and is probably my favorite technical information source.

Without a better reference, the manufacturer of the tire must be held accountable for the information they provide to the public. If their basic information says they use larger cording materials to help produce a stronger carcass I don't have the background knowledge to dispute them.

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FastEagle
I am aware of Dr Daws and some of his work for plaintiff lawyers. I am not aware of any of his real life experience in practical tire engineering where the root cause has been traced to or been initiated by high load, high speed or low inflation.

Re Cord size. Larger is not always stronger and to infer it is will quickly mislead the non-technically minded. There are numerous reasons for a design engineer to select cord "A" over cord "B".

My persoanl experiance in building and modifying race cars I have learned first hand that there are even performance attributes where two layers of smaller cord can provide better performance than a single larger cord, just as in your example of steel vs Titanium bolt or my example of Gr 5 vs GR- there even are practical and safety related reasons where cost is no object to use the "lower strength" GR-5 bolt in certain applications rather than a GR-8 ie. stronger bolt.

I guess my point is that mention of specific material properties can be a red hering in a technical discussion.
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Old 03-03-2015, 11:12 AM   #33
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“Without a better reference, the manufacturer of the tire must be held accountable for the information they provide to the public. If their basic information says they use larger cording materials to help produce a stronger carcass I don't have the background knowledge to dispute them.”

That is a quote from a previous statement I’ve made in this thread. Because this thread is about Carlisle tires I was referring to statements Carlisle has made in their in-house publications (PDFs). In the reference below they state that ST tires have larger polyester & steel cording that accounts for higher tire strength than P or LT tires. It’s information from the horses mouth - so to speak - and should be factual for Carlisle manufactured tires.

 
http://www.carlisletransportationproducts.com/cms_files/original/Trailer_Tires__Tips_Best_Practices.pdf


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Old 03-04-2015, 06:37 PM   #34
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“Without a better reference, the manufacturer of the tire must be held accountable for the information they provide to the public. If their basic information says they use larger cording materials to help produce a stronger carcass I don't have the background knowledge to dispute them.”

That is a quote from a previous statement I’ve made in this thread. Because this thread is about Carlisle tires I was referring to statements Carlisle has made in their in-house publications (PDFs). In the reference below they state that ST tires have larger polyester & steel cording that accounts for higher tire strength than P or LT tires. It’s information from the horses mouth - so to speak - and should be factual for Carlisle manufactured tires.

 
http://www.carlisletransportationproducts.com/cms_files/original/Trailer_Tires__Tips_Best_Practices.pdf


FastEagle
OK My bad

I thought it just might be possible that some readers of this thread might not be running Carlisle brand
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:30 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by FastEagle View Post
“Without a better reference, the manufacturer of the tire must be held accountable for the information they provide to the public. If their basic information says they use larger cording materials to help produce a stronger carcass I don't have the background knowledge to dispute them.”

That is a quote from a previous statement I’ve made in this thread. Because this thread is about Carlisle tires I was referring to statements Carlisle has made in their in-house publications (PDFs). In the reference below they state that ST tires have larger polyester & steel cording that accounts for higher tire strength than P or LT tires. It’s information from the horses mouth - so to speak - and should be factual for Carlisle manufactured tires.

 
http://www.carlisletransportationproducts.com/cms_files/original/Trailer_Tires__Tips_Best_Practices.pdf


FastEagle
If the new Carlisle ST tires prove themselves, I'll sure consider them next purchase.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:21 AM   #36
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The Goodyear G614 tire is a ST235/85R16 with a G rating of 14 ply construction and 110 psi pressure rating. I had a Blowout on my 5er in December and I just came back from the beach yesterday. My Keystone Alpine 3600RS started bouncing 10 miles from home! I will replace the China Bombs (towmax) on it before it moves again. I am waiting to see what a new fender is going to cost me, as I have already repaired the Propane line to the slide out that was ripped off in the blow out. At $325 each, these are quite pricey, but I do not care to be on the road side changing a blow out again! If someone has a better ideal for replacements, I would love to hear it. But I do not want a LT tire, and I understand the sidewall construction differences between the two tire types.

Original tires are the ST235/80R16, load E. The camper manufacturer is now putting on China ST235/85R16 load G tires on the same 7000 lb Dexter axles with the newest year model. New unit had a tire labeled Provider. Thanks for your help. Kevin C
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Old 04-18-2015, 11:19 AM   #37
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Goodyear G614 is an LT tire
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:04 PM   #38
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Then so be it. It is marked and rated on their new web site as a replacement tire for Fifth Wheel campers. It is listed as a ST235/85R16 tire, and the local Goodyear dealer actually stocks them because it is the only tire that will survive on the Barbeque Waggons that RO's Barbeque runs around here. I found a 75 MPH specification after much searching.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:01 PM   #39
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Then so be it. It is marked and rated on their new web site as a replacement tire for Fifth Wheel campers. It is listed as a ST235/85R16 tire, and the local Goodyear dealer actually stocks them because it is the only tire that will survive on the Barbeque Waggons that RO's Barbeque runs around here. I found a 75 MPH specification after much searching.
The 75 mph is because the Goodyear G614 RST a LT tire made for the (regional service trailer) industry. Nothing to do with the ST tire.

This email from Goodyear on the subject;

*** This email to me from Goodyear;
To: goodyear_cr@goodyear.com
cc:
Subject: Contact Us request from www.goodyear.com

Your G614 RST advertising says its a LT235/85-16 G tire. However what does
the RST stand for ??
************************************************** **************

From: goodyear_cr@goodyear.com

Sent by: Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations
Innovation Way Akron, OH

Thank you for contacting our web site. RST for "Regional Service Trailer" is the correct term for the LT235/85-16 G614 RST tire.

Jennifer.... consumer relations group
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations
Innovation Way Akron, OH
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:14 PM   #40
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Looking at Safercar.gov, there is a pile of complaints about BlowOuts on the Power King Towmax ST235/80R16 tires on my unit. I was hoping to find a recall on these tires. Baring that, I am looking at 4 new tires this month!
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:10 PM   #41
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Blowouts (actually Run Low Flex Failure) are almost always traceable to the tire loosing air which allows excessive flexing of the sidewall and melting of the polyester body cord.
TPMS can usually provide a warning of air loss so might prevent damage and can in some circumstances possibly save a tire from destruction.

Belt separations are usually the result of cumulative damage of high heat and rubber strength degradation. Heat is generated from low inflation, high loads and high speed. TPM will not warn of this type of failure. However if you have proper loads & inflation and keep the speed well below the max speed capability of the tire you should get a number of years service from your tires.
Remembering that multi axle trailers impart unique and high Interply Shear forces on any tire which shortens tire life.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:51 AM   #42
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I purchased this camper from new, the unit parks up on ventilated blocks to allow airflow around the tires. I have always checked air pressure before each trip and I have never had a flat tire or a tire repair in the 2 1/2 years of my ownership. The Towmax tires on this camper weigh about 1/2 of what the replacement Goodyear Marathon weighs that I replaced the Blowout with. I will block it up and carry in the tires to be replaced, because it started bouncing again about 5 miles from home, so another is about to blow out. I am only running about 2800 lbs per tire on LR E tires. These tires have about 3000 miles that were put on by me, I guess that when you look up Powerking Towmax at SaferCar.gov, there are many complaints on the Government website that detail just like mine.
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