Considering going back to 5th wheel from motorhome, looking for feedback on 2 brands?

[ElCaminoManT]

Originally Posted by plasma800

oh man that's a tough one...

Isn't the keystone cougar made in the pacific northwest? I know the Reflection is made in indiana... and I've just swore off indiana builds... but the reflections really do look nice, and I was looking at them hard.

I ended up purchasing an outdoors rv 5th, might not be your flavor, but with all of my research I'm pleased there.

But I do know that keystone makes one 5th out that way (pacific NW), and I'd be interested to know if in fact it is the cougar, and what difference that might make in the build quality because so.

Deeper research needed.

You can also try over at the grand design owners forum.. lots of koolaid there.

But here's the thing. I watch PPL like a hawk.. and I don't see many reflections for sale there, but i DO see a ton of solitudes.. and it always makes me wonder why....

I know they have had a lot of axle issues in the recent year models, that swayed me off the solitude, but I do not know that the same issue carried down to the reflection..

lol, koolaid!

i think the cougars are made in Indiana from what i can gather.

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Have you looked at KZ?
https://www.kz-rv.com/products/duran...s/D325RLT.html

we have but the nearest dealer is well in excess of 100 miles away and stocks only a small handful of trailers, mostly TTs and not 5ers. this would also make service a challenge. we scoped them out at the last pomona show, nice but didn't do anything for the wife either.

Originally Posted by trenchmonkey

You might consider the "new" tax codes if planning to write it off.
Looks like TT's and 5'ers no longer qualify as 2nd homes.

lol, we live in san diego so we rent so this does not apply anyway

Originally Posted by ALLOY

Have you compared....
Depth of the I beam frame - front - middle - back
Number of cross members in the frame
Type of slide mechanisms
Gauge of alum used for the wall framing
Wood or metal roof trusses -wood has less heat transfer
Axle size - capacity
Tire size - capacity
Wheel - capacity
Spring shackle thickness 3/16" - 1/4" - 3/8"
Number of leafs in the springs
Wall thickness
Number of and length of outriggers that extend from the frame to support the outside walls.
Luan used in the outside walls 3/32" -1/8" - 3/16"
How thick is the outside wall panel....Gel coat or fiberglass?
Converter - WAFCO or PD...amperage?
A stand alone 12V dist panel or incorporated into the converter
Gauge of wiring from batteries to 12V panel - slide motors - stab jacks
Number of breakers in the AC panel..fridge on a separate breaker
Transfer switch i.e. shore power - generator
Stab jack system
Actual amount of insulation (not Reflexite) foam or fiberglass insulation in the
walls floors - roof - back wall - front cap
Amount of wood trim that is MDO vs. real wood
How thick are the drawer and cabinet bottoms
Shower stall - molded or laminate
Water pump amperage -more amps = more flow
Tank flush
Luan used in the outside walls 3/32" -1/8" - 3/16"
How thick is the outside wall panel....Gel coat or fiberglass?
Are the tank heated and the size of duct?
Molded back cap or laminated
Single - double glazed windows
Is there an insulated (how much) tank compartment ?
Furnace size
Number of heating registers and location...not close the the air intake
Roof EPDM or TPO
Compartment door thickness
Compartment latch type
Dump valves sizes

Should be enough to keep busy for a few minutes

Depending on the amount of use not all is relevant but gathering the info will give you an idea of which direction to go.

holy moly......

im not even sure where id find the info to 5 of these questions to even start. but, this does give me things to consider and compare.... thank you sir

Originally Posted by Wundertaker

As I've mentioned several times.. Anyone interested in buying either New or Used RV of Any Type would do themselves and their wallets well by checking out rvreviews.net I purchased both their Motorhome and Fifth Wheel Editions of this great comprehensive research tool.

Personally, and based on my recent Fifth Wheel research, Grand Design comes out on top when compared to Keystone, and I'm not saying that Keystone is not a good product, just that GD's ratings and results are better when compared to Keystone.

rvreviews.net has done the majority of the work for you, and they update their publications on an annual basis always giving results for the Last 10 Years on all major manufacturers. Finally, I "am not" connected to OR compensated by rvreviews.net however I probably should be...I'm just a very satisfied customer as to the "value" of their publications.

hadn't even thought of that site, thank you!

Originally Posted by WayRob1956

Grand Design also has a facebook page that is "patrolled" by their reps. When they find someone having a problem they get involved to assist in what ways they can or if they can. Lots of reviews by current owners that have used the product for many years. You need to make your own choice as to what suits you the best. They have had problems in the past with wheel bearing that were modified by the mfg but have been willing to change them out. Axels are 7k which some change to 8k. Many also change to Disc Brakes but all of these items can be said for just about any mfg today. I am looking at use rather than new. Have a "certified" inspection done on any rig you buy. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by SlowpokeSlim

GD uses Lippert frames/axles, just like everybody else. All the bearing seal leak issues are directly related to Lippert, and most manufacturers that use Lippert (pretty much every brand in the US) have had axle seal leak issues.

"koolaid"...

Just LOL> @ Plasma

OP,

I'd walk through both models several times, and pick the one with the floor plan you like the most.

trying, having issues actually getting access to the floorpans that we like. dealers near us don't have them in stock. dealer that does, a bit further away, can't seem to be bothered to get them out of their storage lot which they refer to as 'Fort Knox' when we asked if we could just go over there to look. needless to say, we left that dealer and likely won't go back again, ever.

Originally Posted by cruzbill

Instead of stepping back, move forward:

https://www.renegaderv.com/renegade-...iner-motorhome

Or find one slightly used.

Happy Hunting!

HA! I wish!

Originally Posted by tmm2good

GD switched to Dexter axles this past fall. FYI

X2 - pick the floor plan the DW likes best.

mostly, but if i let her have free run we'll end up with a 42' front living Cardinal which will require a dually and then i should've just gone to the Renegade....

[ElCaminoManT]

I sincerely appreciate the replies so far. We're still weighing what we are going to do, I took the moho to the shop today to have the living room slide looked at. It seems to work ok but it is sitting crooked in the opening in the left side wall. There is also a very concerning popping or cracking noise coming from the right side wall while driving that developed after running over 2 quite large asphalt to concrete transitions on the freeway that were badly buckled back in November. Depending on what is found while have influence on what direction we go.

Another brand that I'm looking into now is the Elkridge from Heartland. Thoughts? I see the Cyclone toy haulers all over the place so they seem pretty popular, just don't know much about them otherwise.

[MightyMX]

Just spent last 3 months looking and researching 5th wheels. Ended up with a Cougar 344MSK after looking at Jayco, Grand Design and everything else out there. Had better marks across the board with the history to back it up.

[rgreen45]

Don't buy Grand Design. Very low quality.

[rgreen45]

I work in the service department of an RV dealership. We sell Forest River and Heartland. I wouldn't buy either of these. Jayco seems to have the best initial build quality but I can't attest to their support system, should you need it. I know they're good about getting us parts for them when we need them.

[Gigattime]

Originally Posted by rgreen45

Don't buy Grand Design. Very low quality.

Simply not true. All have different issues, but many GD owners are very happy campers. Our 2016 Momentum 350M Toy Hauler is a great unit.

[RCPatt]

Wasn't one of these two brands recently bought by Thor and the other by Winibago. In either case I'd be leery of who is making the brand as part of my decision process. Based on my research done when looking to buy I think anything made by Thor is going to go bad, and Winibago had been low on the totem pole for a while. GDs before the Thor sale are probably better made.

[tuffr2]

IMHO - these are 'run of the mill' 5th wheels. Pick one a hope for the best. My next RV I think will be built by a tiny house builder. Just about better everything for less money. And probably would not depreciate as bad.

I would not have the builder build a traditional tiny house but one that can be towed easily. 8.5 feet wide and no slides.
Everything would be screwed and nothing glued or stapled.

[wingnutz]

Keystone RV

Keystone states its manufacturing sites are in Oregon and Indiana.

Grand Design is under the Winnebago umbrella.

Lots of great information on this thread.
Glad I found it.

[monkey]

We looked at (walked through) bunches when shopping... the one thing DW and I agreed on was Elkridge was "Cheaply built" ... as soon as you walk in , it was like the cheapest materials they could find... Now to appologize to any happy Elkridge owners... This is just my (our) opinion,, worth nothing. So far coming up on two years, we are happy with our Cougar. Are there higher quality rv's ? You bet. But this seems to fit our budget and useage. A couple smaller warrenty issues that none were denied. and to a previous post, ours has Dexter axles. 4400lb, 3400lbs actual weight. (loaded) So far, so good....
Monkey

[rpierrie]

Grand Design Owner here. Just wanted to share my direct experience as an owner and non koolaid drinker. Overall build quality has been reasonable, have had a few minor issues, but overall I have been pleased. I did have the leaking seal issue; which GD did step up to cover the repair (it was all four seals).

Is the brand better or worse than others in this price point, I would say no. Go with the floor-plan that works.

If I were buying again, I'd buy the same unit.

[southernlady]

Originally Posted by wingnutz

Keystone RV

Keystone states its manufacturing sites are in Oregon and Indiana.

Grand Design is under the Winnebago umbrella.

Lots of great information on this thread.
Glad I found it.

Keystone is part of Thor Industries.

[ElCaminoManT]

I apologize that I'm not responding directly to each post. I really appreciate everyone's input and i jot down a summery of each to a little list i have going.

thank you!

[Boomer3801]

I have had my Grand Design Reflection for 2 years now. It has had a couple minor issues that were taken care of. Yes, I had the issue with the axles, but then again, so did my friend who’s Jayco had the same axles. I sent my complaint directly to Lippert and they gave me claim number that I could give my dealer. We have been very happy with our purchase and would definitely purchase another Grand Design trailer. But what can I say, I like Kool-aid.