Continued problems with Cougar High Country

[dkperez]

Having just read the story of the Camping World and Forest River I thought I'd put this in...


About three years ago we bought a Cougar High Country 264rl from Noble RV in MN. At that time we purchased a surprisingly expensive extended warranty just to protect us in case of problems with the slides or other expensive systems... In fairly short order, there were a couple problems, most notably the dining slide not moving when using the wall switch.


So, back to the dealer. Where they insisted they'd corrected the problem.
We continued using the trailer, and found that the slide STILL wouldn't move with the wall switch, but it DID function from the remote. Yes, it makes little sense, but that's what it did. For some time, since it was very inconvenient to take the unit back to the dealer, we simply used the remote to move the slide, which worked – there was jerking, chattering, and squealing, but it generally moved in and out.


I CALLED Keystone and talked to them about the problem, and got a not-overly polite screw off and have your dealer fix it.


Admittedly, my recollection of all the dealer visits, in and out of "standard" warranty are fuzzy (most likely 'cause I've done my best to block the memories), but essentially it was in to the dealer at least once more while in warranty to have the slide fixed. I was told it was.

It would work for a day or two, then stop working again.


Approximately 1 1/2 years ago I had to take the trailer in for some damage repair, at which time I told them about the THREE main problems we still had:
1. The dining slide STILL wouldn't go in or out from the wall switch
2. The rear stabilizer jacks wouldn't extend and retract consistently
3. The propane system leaked. A lot. We were filling a 30 pound take every 3 - 4 WEEKS.


When I picked up the trailer they insisted the problems were ALL "lubrication", except the propane, which they refused to work on, citing my use of additional clamps on two of the hoses where I'd EASILY found significant leaks, to minimize the continued leakage.


They happily presented me with a bill for $116 for "lubricating" and insisted the things they WOULD work on were fixed.


With 48 hours of picking up the trailer we headed out for a weekend and found that NEITHER problem was fixed. This time I made VIDEO of both problems, showing the slide sticking, jerking, chattering and squealing, and even refusing to move at all using the wall switch. And the rear stabilizers NOT extending or retracting using the motor...



AGAIN, this was within FOURTY-EIGHT HOURS of having the dealer insist they'd fixed the problems.


When I RETURNED to Noble and showed the video to the service writer with whom I'd worked in the past, she flew into a rage, shouting that they'd DEMONSTRATED THAT THE SLIDE MOVED AND THE STABILIZERS WORKED WHEN I'D PREVIOUSLY PICKED UP THE TRAILER. She then stormed off, back to the office, and as I was told there were no owners or a service manager in attendance, and I had no time for an extended battle, I took the trailer home.


Consequent to that visit, I followed the advice you gave the person in the Camping world topic and wrote a LETTER to the owners of the dealership, detailing the situation and requesting that they contact me to resolve the problem.



I NEVER RECEIVED ANY RESPONSE. Attempts to reach an owner by phone at the Owatonna dealership always resulted in being told that NEITHER "owner" was available.


I undertook the repairs myself. I replaced THE ENTIRE propane system, which cost me less than $100 for all the hoses, including the cross pipe AND a new regulator, which completely stopped the leaking. Again, these were NOT small, subtle leaks. They were leaks EASILY found by spraying soapy water on various joints. Faster, cheaper, and a LOT less frustrating to do it myself than to pull the trailer all the way to the dealer where I suspect they wouldn't be any more competent than on previous visits.


I also removed the motor for the rear stabilizers and disassembled it. Turns out WATER had gotten into the motor and corroded one of the brush springs to the point where it disintegrated. I purchased a 70 cent spring at Menards, reassembled the motor, sealed all the seams with silicone caulk and reassembled it. It's been working ever since.


Last, I disassembled ALL the connections from the wall switch to the slide motor, stripped and reassembled all the wire connections, and AMAZINGLY, now that there's a decent connection everywhere, the slide at least MOVES IN AND OUT, even from the wall switch. It DOES NOT move WELL - it chatters, jerks, and squeals in both directions, but at LEAST IT MOVES.


Fast forward to this week...
We had a leak in the skylight in the shower, so after patching the leaking area, we took the trailer to a DIFFERENT dealer to have the roof resealed as needed - just normal maintenance, and it's been three years, so not a big deal.


While it was there I requested that THIS dealer check the slide and see if they could improve the jerking, chattering and squealing evident when it moved.


Today I got a call telling me that as near as they can tell, the slide rolls in and out on a roller (or rollers) and at least ONE of them appears to be “bad”, causing the slide to jerk, chatter, and squeal.


They spoke to either Keystone or the maker of the Accu-Slide system and found that they would likely need to REMOVE THE SLIDE to replace the roller (or rollers).


Is anyone familiar with the slide system? Does it REALLY use rollers for the slide? If so, is it really necessary to REMOVE the whole slide to fix the problem?


I'll pick up the trailer tomorrow, and most likely take it directly from the dealer that currently has it, and take it directly to Noble RV to see if they concur that there is likely a bad roller, and will FIX the problem - WHATEVER it is using their ridiculously expensive extended warranty - or if they'll again try to tell me its "lubrication"...



I have very little hope that they’ll honor their extended warranty and effect a repair, but I figure it’s worth one more try before I write them off totally.

[RangeMaggotBob]

Take all your old parts and put them in a box, and when they tell you they won't fix or replace, tell them you had it done at a REAL RV dealer, and toss the box onto the pavement and leave.

[wingnut60]

From your notes about Noble, no way would I let them work on it again.
Is the extended 'warranty' only with them? Or is it a 3rd-party plan?
Have you ever tried to use the warranty somewhere else?
Sounds to me like you got taken on the warranty part, and Noble RV isn't much for standing behind their products...
Who manufactured the slide mechanism? Have you contacted them? Thats where I would start this time.
Joe

[BSHGTO]

These types of posts some times amazes me. I just seems that when the words "Dealer" or "Keystone" are used in a sentence it always ends in frustration. I`m going to Hershey tomorrow and look at the Grand Design 5th wheels. My local Dealer sells Montanas ( where I bought my HC ) he said he is not bringing one to the show. Just tired of listening about the issues with Keystone. He is bringing his Forest River line of campers. I still like my HC cause I got a good one with just a front cap repaint that was denied at first but then I mentioned "Lawyer" and all was good after that. Other small stuff that I took care of but that`s it. But this is my last Keystone product. I see another Brand in my driveway.

[dkperez]

Picked up the trailer yesterday from Hilltop, where they sealed everything on the roof and made SOME adjustments to the slide so IF YOU PRESS THE BUTTON AND ABSOLUTELY DON'T EVER NEVER EVER LET GO UNTIL IT'S ALL THE WAY IN OR OUT IT'LL SOMETIMES GO WITHOUT ALL THE CHATTERING AND JERKING. But, if you DO release the button and press it again, it'll jerk and chatter so hard it shakes the whole trailer - just like before.

BUT, in addition to making it possible to run it in and out most of the time without as MUCH excitement, they contacted the Accu-Slide people, AND contacted a technician in Hilltop's other shop that's their "go to" expert on these (their shop in Rochester is much smaller than their main dealership shop. HE's the one that told them it SURE SOUNDS like one of the rollers is either broken, stuck, flat spotted, or just generally isn't working right... And they ALL AGREED that IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT lack of "LUBRICATION"!

BUT, my FAVORITE PART OF THE WHOLE THING: Turns out Hilltop and Noble are about TWO BLOCKS apart in Rochester, which I didn't know. So, on the way down at 9 a.m., I CALLED Noble to tell them I was planning on stopping in with the trailer, described what was going on, and indicated I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO DO ANY WORK AT THIS TIME - JUST TO WALK OUT, WATCH THE SLIDE ACT CRAZY, AND BE AWARE THAT IT WAS SOMETHING MORE THAN "LUBRICATION"........

I kid you not - THE SERVICE WRITER AT NOBLE STATED THAT THEY WERE SO BUSY, THEY JUST COULDN'T FIND THE TIME TO EVEN LOOK AT IT TODAY. After an ASTONISHINGLY long conversation, he grudgingly AGREED that if we were willing to sit around for a few hours, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO WALK OUT INTO THE PARKING LOT AND SEE THE SLIDE MOVE after the REOPEN in the afternoon... Oh.

At this point, my wife suggested we NOT allow Noble to even see the trailer ever again, much less ever work on it... She didn't phrase it QUITE as politely as I'm making it sound, but she was EXTREMELY succinct...

FORTUNATELY, as it turns out, the service manager at Hilltop asked me WHICH extended warranty we had, so I grabbed the paperwork and gave it to him. One quick look and he said - "OH, NO PROBLEM, WE DEAL WITH THESE GUYS." Monday I'll call their main shop, and see what we need to do when we're between trips to have them take a look and see if we can get this thing, finally working correctly...

SO, the saga continues but at least I'm hopeful I've got a dealer I can work with... And if I find a NICE JAYCO at the other Hilltop shop in a small enough size, with a passthrough that'll hold the trikes, I MAY just let them HAVE THIS MISERABLE POS and buy it!

[Notlad]

Hopefully some of the folks who might have done buisness with Noble will read your very detailed account of their incompetence and indifference and avoid them when purchasing an RV.

[mtwi]

Originally Posted by dkperez

Picked up the trailer yesterday from Hilltop, where they sealed everything on the roof and made SOME adjustments to the slide so IF YOU PRESS THE BUTTON AND ABSOLUTELY DON'T EVER NEVER EVER LET GO UNTIL IT'S ALL THE WAY IN OR OUT IT'LL SOMETIMES GO WITHOUT ALL THE CHATTERING AND JERKING. But, if you DO release the button and press it again, it'll jerk and chatter so hard it shakes the whole trailer - just like before.

BUT, in addition to making it possible to run it in and out most of the time without as MUCH excitement, they contacted the Accu-Slide people, AND contacted a technician in Hilltop's other shop that's their "go to" expert on these (their shop in Rochester is much smaller than their main dealership shop. HE's the one that told them it SURE SOUNDS like one of the rollers is either broken, stuck, flat spotted, or just generally isn't working right... And they ALL AGREED that IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT lack of "LUBRICATION"!

BUT, my FAVORITE PART OF THE WHOLE THING: Turns out Hilltop and Noble are about TWO BLOCKS apart in Rochester, which I didn't know. So, on the way down at 9 a.m., I CALLED Noble to tell them I was planning on stopping in with the trailer, described what was going on, and indicated I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO DO ANY WORK AT THIS TIME - JUST TO WALK OUT, WATCH THE SLIDE ACT CRAZY, AND BE AWARE THAT IT WAS SOMETHING MORE THAN "LUBRICATION"........

I kid you not - THE SERVICE WRITER AT NOBLE STATED THAT THEY WERE SO BUSY, THEY JUST COULDN'T FIND THE TIME TO EVEN LOOK AT IT TODAY. After an ASTONISHINGLY long conversation, he grudgingly AGREED that if we were willing to sit around for a few hours, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO WALK OUT INTO THE PARKING LOT AND SEE THE SLIDE MOVE after the REOPEN in the afternoon... Oh.

At this point, my wife suggested we NOT allow Noble to even see the trailer ever again, much less ever work on it... She didn't phrase it QUITE as politely as I'm making it sound, but she was EXTREMELY succinct...

FORTUNATELY, as it turns out, the service manager at Hilltop asked me WHICH extended warranty we had, so I grabbed the paperwork and gave it to him. One quick look and he said - "OH, NO PROBLEM, WE DEAL WITH THESE GUYS." Monday I'll call their main shop, and see what we need to do when we're between trips to have them take a look and see if we can get this thing, finally working correctly...

SO, the saga continues but at least I'm hopeful I've got a dealer I can work with... And if I find a NICE JAYCO at the other Hilltop shop in a small enough size, with a passthrough that'll hold the trikes, I MAY just let them HAVE THIS MISERABLE POS and buy it!

Thanks for the information. I know where my HC WON'T be going for warranty work....

Interested to hear about your experience with Hilltop in Fridley(Minneapolis).

[dkperez]

Called Hilltop in Friday early this week. When the service manager called me back he had ALREADY talked to the buys at their Rochester location and knew what they knew. He had ALSO already talked to the "Accu-Slide" expert in their facility and had ideas from him.

I suggested that we stop on our way home from the far north on Monday and he set us up for "anytime in the afternoon" and we'll take a quick look so we have the best idea how to approach this thing... Depending on what they think, they'll talk to the warranty company, and we'll likely take the trailer in after we're done traveling this fall...

SO FAR, pretty amazing when you get someone that actually gives a dam about the problems, and wants to fix them, rather than flying into a snit and stomping back to the office...

[Superslif]

That is the biggest worry I have buying a new RV trailer in the future. My last RV I bought (2013 Aerolite) new I had a slide roller wheel issue. But it was Keystone who would not bone up that it was a build / design issue. Even the tech who finally did the work said it was build issue.

I also have a fear that what ever new RV I buy at a dealer who sells that "brand" might drop that brand shortly afterward and no long honor any warranty work. Seems there is a cycle of 3-5 years on what line of RV's a dealer sells.

Personally I like the RV (2013 Aerolite 26' hybrid) we have now, but my wife is kicking tires to find that perfect floorplan. Looked at a few RV's yesterday (Cougar being one of them), and all of them had far less storage than what we have now.

[gottoys]

My experience with Noble RV in Owatonna Mn wasn't much different. Made an appointment to have some warranty issues corrected. Waited a month to get it in. They had it for 5-6 weeks and only got through 1/2 the list. They replaced a bathroom vanity door with one that didn't match..but they put it on anyway like I wouldn't notice. Botched up 3 or 4 other things. I went to pick it up as I had told them I needed it by a certain date to leave for the Winter down South. It was parked on the back of their lot, unlocked..Service "Manager" (boy that's a stretch) said he had parts ordered and I could bring it back when they came in. Told him I would never come back. A couple months later he called and said the parts were in. I had already fixed it myself with parts the mfg. sent me. Told him I wasn't coming back. He then asked me what he should do with the parts...you don't want to know what I said. They keep changing lines every year or two and I don't think it's because they have problems with the manufacturers. It might be the other way around. I didn't shop there for my next purchase.

[dkperez]

gottoys, having had similar experiences, I can empathize. About the only thing you can do is try to find a dealer that actually takes care of their customers, and JUST LIKE with car dealers, I don't believe there is any way to know which ones are good and which are bad.

Stopped at Hilltop yesterday about 1 pm. Service manager was THERE, immediately grabbed is "Accu-Slide expert", accompanied us out to the trailer, ran the slide in and out a couple times, checked in, under, around and generally took a quick, but thorough look at the slide...

The consensus was that there is something WRONG with WHATEVER the slide moves on - whether rollers, or some "slider" it moves over. They used both the wall switch and the remote to move the slide and commented that the voltage drop they way COULD be because the thing is having such a hard time moving its essentially stalling the motor. When asked what was needed and how long, the service manager told me he would like to have the trailer for a week. They will contact the warranty company once they've done a thorough examination (which as I understand it involves lifting the slide up so they can SEE what's going on under it), and get things fixed. FORTUNATELY (or unfortunately), the slide was in FINE FORM while there - not only did it jerk and shudder and shake the whole trailer when moving, but it regularly STALLED and stuck and had to be pushed by hand to get it moving again. And, of course, it made the normal squeal/scream when being brought in (reminiscent of a cat screaming outside the window). So, it isn't subtle and will HOPEFULLY be fixable.

One thing they DID comment on was something I've always seen but didn't/don't know if it's normal or not: Where the slide moves over the carpet there are TWO grooves, one at each end of the slide, where the carpet has been matted down. I've always presumed it's just from whatever the slide moves on, running over the carpeting. They do NOT think it's normal and believe it's part of whatever isn't working.

On the OTHER hand, while there I wasted a few minutes of one of their salespeople's time to having him show me a Jayco with a large passthrough and configured as we'd like it... They have a couple that are REALLY nice, but unfortunately they're all 35 feet or so long. Which won't fit in our parking space and would be pretty hard to get into some of the extremely tight and very small Minnesota state park spaces and campgrounds...

We'll see how it goes when we take the trailer in in November.

[Teek312]

Welcome to Norco Industries, Inc. are the builders of the BAL Accu-Slide system. See if you can get anywhere with them to fix it. I for one hate their cable system slide. Click on link above it has info about slide like trouble shooting etc.

[rkbeasley]

We have a 2015 Cougar 28sgs fifth wheel bought new in November 2014. It was in the shop at CW 14 times for 19 problems over 100 nights in the first year.
When we returned from FL in April 2016 I took it back to CW. The floor had bubbled up like a basketball in 3 places. CW cut the bottom out and found the bottom of the floor was rotting. CW could not find a cause and asked for Keystone help. Keystone told them to take out the slides and take up the vinyl. Keystone said that would show where the water intrusion started. CW told Keystone if they did they could not repair it. CW took up the vinyl and could find no trace of water intrusion. CW can not find the source of the problem or fix the what they wrecked in looking for the problem. CW requested an authorization to re turn it to Keystone. Apparently cw never received the authorization.

So it has been sitting in CW s bone yard since April 22,2016. CW and Keystone are not doing anything to solve the problem or return it to me. Even if they return it, it is not usable. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

[plain ol Bil]

Contact your state Attorney General. Give them all the info. They will help you