Community Forums

rachael · 07-10-2011, 02:36 PM

We are looking at buying the 2011 Crusader 320 RLT. This will be our 1st 5th wheel. We have a 30 foot keystone springdale. I was wondering if anyone has any experience wth this line. It is a prime Time manufacturing from Forest River. We have a 2011 Diesel silverado 2500HD.

dayle1 · 07-10-2011, 04:42 PM

Looked at it earlier this yr, but it had too little bedroom storage for our needs. Also, I wanted both 50 amp service and dual pane windows. Also found that the front slam latch storage door wasn't very effective since it is not mounted vertically.

But the Crusader does have several good features. The ducted return air system for the A/C makes it much quieter and it is supposed to be more efficient. More significant is the SchwinTek In-wall slideout mechanism used on all slideouts. Lighter weight, less power and safer. The dual motors for each slideout are computer controlled and supposed to stop the slideout if it hits an object or other problem.

I think a good price would be around $28k.

On edit: The 290RLT is what I looked at. The 320RLT would meet our needs, but it is longer, heavier, less well equiped and more expensive than what I purchased.

rachael · 07-11-2011, 08:58 AM

What make and model did you buy? I liked the Crusader because of the counter space in the kitchen and the layout in the living area. The ability to see the tv from the chairs.

RonWBlues · 07-12-2011, 03:55 PM

My wife and I are looking at the Crusader 320RTL as well. We liked the counter space as well as other features that are standard. We are new to Rving, so this would be our first unit. Question? You mentioned you had a Chevy 2500 diesel. Will that truck handle the weight and pin weight of the Crusader? I need to purchase a truck to haul it with.

Thanks

rachael · 07-13-2011, 06:07 AM

Well since I posted this we are now looking at the crossroades 325CK. We are tying to get the best for the least $$. I am waiting for the dealer to give me a quote.
As far as a truck goes it depends on how much trailer you want to pull. With the 5th out there now, allot are very light. So my husband did his research and found the Silverado Diesel 2500 HD had a good rating with everything and everyone he talked to. the new 2011 has a new heavy suspension and its really nice for pulling.
Have someone on this forum give you the low down on weight thing, but the Truck we have towes 17800 lbs.

RonWBlues · 07-14-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rachael

Well since I posted this we are now looking at the crossroades 325CK. We are tying to get the best for the least $$. I am waiting for the dealer to give me a quote.
As far as a truck goes it depends on how much trailer you want to pull. With the 5th out there now, allot are very light. So my husband did his research and found the Silverado Diesel 2500 HD had a good rating with everything and everyone he talked to. the new 2011 has a new heavy suspension and its really nice for pulling.
Have someone on this forum give you the low down on weight thing, but the Truck we have towes 17800 lbs.

Thanks. I am doing my research now and plan to post something about towing weights to get feedback. I didn't know buying a 5th wheel was going to be a math test. LOL. There is a lot to learn in order to be safe and this forum seems to be the place to come. Thanks again!

mhs4771 · 07-14-2011, 02:51 PM

A 2500 Chevy Duramax will tow just about anything, but in many cases will not support the pin weight of the heavier 5ers. Plus once you get if moving, you still have to be able to stop it. I prefer my 1 Ton Dually then I don't have to worry unless we went to one of the top of the line, high end rigs.

RustyJC · 07-14-2011, 02:53 PM

Before you buy a truck or 5th wheel, let me strongly recommend you read THIS from iRV2.com member Ken Lenger. At the bottom of the page is an Excel worksheet that will be invaluable in sizing your truck and 5th wheel.

If you do this, I guarantee that you'll be more knowledgeable regarding 5th wheel towing than 95% of the truck or RV salesmen you'll encounter.

Rusty

RonWBlues · 07-14-2011, 08:19 PM

Thanks for all the great advice. I definitely plan to follow. I was actually creating a spreadsheet myself, but I will use this one instead to save the time. I have been looking at the GMC Seirra 2500 with the diesel. I will run the numbers using the spreadsheet, but at a glance, I should be able to handle the Crusader 320 RLT at 10,000 dry and estimating another 2,000 of stuff. The pin weight is about 1900. Once I get close, I will post to have some others check my math. I have been reading these forums and definitely want to be Safe! Reading some of the problems others have had, makes you think twice. Thanks again!

RustyJC · 07-15-2011, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonWBlues

The pin weight is about 1900.

For sizing purposes, take 20% of the 5th wheel's GVWR as the estimated pin weight when loaded. Published dry pin weight is meaningless.

Rusty

RonWBlues · 08-02-2011, 08:16 PM

I downloaded the spreadsheet on determining weights and have been researching different models of trucks and 5th wheelers. The calculations are a eye opener!!! My numbers are what I have been able to obtain on the internet sites and estimates to what I would be carrying.

The truck I have been looking at is a GMC 2500HD Durmax Crewcab 4wd.
I have been looking at multiple trailers, but this one is a good example of the size. Approximately 7200 dry brochure weight. I am using a Cougar Lite 27RKS for this example.

The GCVWR seems to be fine with about 5000 lbs under.
The GVWR on the truck is where I am concerned. What is a good number to be at for a buffer. Is 200 lbs under the GVWR ok?

I tried to be very conservative on the weights for both truck and 5th wheel.

With the GMC 2500, I don't see me pulling any 5th Wheeler over 9500 lbs fully loaded and being legal! That is a far cry from the 16700 lbs the brochure states.
Please let me know what you think?

GMC 2500HD Duramax
Truck Specs.
GVWR 10000.00
Curb Weight 7208.00
Payload 2792.00
GCVWR Truck+ Trailer 24500.00
Max Trailer 16700.00

Cougar Lite 27RKS
Trailer Weight 7204.00
Calc Est. Carrying Capacity 2200.00
Total Trailer and Equipment 9404.00

GTWR 9404.00
Brochure Dry Hitch PIN Weight 1210.00
Calc Hitch = 18% of 12220 1692.72

Truck -Dry Weight 7208.00
2 people, Gas, hitch, tools 942.00
18% hitch 1692.72
Estimated Total -------------9842.72

GVWR 10000.00
Under/Over GVWR 157.28

Est. Fully Loaded Trailer 9404.00
Est. Fully Loaded Truck 9842.72
Calculated GCVWR Total------ 19246.72

GCVWR 24500.00
Under/Over GCVWR 5253.28

RustyJC · 08-03-2011, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonWBlues

With the GMC 2500, I don't see me pulling any 5th Wheeler over 9500 lbs fully loaded and being legal! That is a far cry from the 16700 lbs the brochure states.

This is why the "Manufacturer's Trailer Tow Rating" (MTTR) has gotten a lot of people in trouble, and why I say that it's a fictitious, marketing fluff rating intended only to sell trucks. Besides being overstated since it's based on the curb weight of a base model truck (no options or accessories, with only a 150 lb driver), MTTR totally ignores the tow vehicle GVWR which is the limiting factor with almost all SRW trucks, especially the 250/2500 3/4 ton series, only referring to it in the footnotes (which few individuals read) that will say something like "None of the vehicle's other ratings are to be exceeded when towing." The only way you'll know that is to run ALL the numbers for yourself, as you've done.

Rusty

RonWBlues · 08-03-2011, 05:45 AM

It sounds like I am heading in the right direction with this setup using a 2500 series truck? Trailer dry around 7000 Or less / 9000 fully loaded. These trailers are in the Lite Series for a few manufacturers. I have been looking at Cougar and WildCat Lites. Any other recommendations?

Thanks
Ron

dayle1 · 08-03-2011, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonWBlues

It sounds like I am heading in the right direction with this setup using a 2500 series truck? Trailer dry around 7000 Or less / 9000 fully loaded. These trailers are in the Lite Series for a few manufacturers. I have been looking at Cougar and WildCat Lites. Any other recommendations?

Thanks
Ron

Ron,

Just about any SRW 3/4 ton diesel pulling a reasonable fifth wheel, especially one with a bedroom slideout will exceed the truck's GVWR due to the combined weight of the diesel and the pin weight. While we should all stay under ALL weight limits, and I am sure this will spark a lot of discussion, there is no technical basis for the truck's GVWR rating. Real trucks have a GVWR that is equal to the combined front and rear GAWRs unlike light duty trucks. Generally, there is very little technical difference between a 3/4 ton SRW and a 1 ton DRW. Tires and an extra leaf in the spring pack are the biggest diff., and maybe slightly larger brakes (to stop the higher truck weight, not stop a heavier trailer). On diesel units, even the rear axle will be the same unit except tube length for SRW vs. DRW.

What is critical is staying under the rear axle GAWR. That is almost always limited by tire rating rather than anything else on the truck. So, you might crunch some more numbers.

My rear GAWR is 6084 lbs (again tire limited). Last time I weighted the rear axle with full 45 gal. of diesel, my heavier utility bed, tools, hitch and factoring in passenger weight, rear axle weight was under 3600 lbs, leaving about 2500 lbs for pin weight. After 8 yrs towing an 8000 lb dry wt. unit I am now towing a 9200 lbs dry wt. unit with an 1800 lb pin weight. Haven't pulled the new unit across the scales yet, but with the same cargo loaded in the same places, the increase in loaded pin weight should be pretty close to the difference in dry pin weights.