RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-02-2019, 11:34 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
halvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Great Northwest
Posts: 25
Dry Weight vs GVWR vs UVW oh my

Hello all!

As I'm sure this topic has been driven into the ground...I still cannot seem to get a simple, straight forward answer.

I'm going to try to pose the question as I understand it and hopefully someone can explain it to me as if I'm 5 years old.

I have a 2013 Ford F250 SD 6.7L FX4, no special towing package that I am aware of. I am looking at 5th Wheel THs. I have had a TT in the past (pulled with an Excursion) and now own a C-Class. The Diesel and 5th Wheel thing is new to me, but very interesting after now owning the other two.

Anyway...from what I can figure out, my truck has a maximum loaded trailer weight rating of 15,900 lbs (according to the spec sheet from Ford). As I'm looking at 5th Wheels, I want to make sure I'm looking at the right number when trying to figure out if I can pull it (confidently and safely).

So...I see Dry Weight numbers, I see GVWR/GAWR numbers, and then the UVW...not to mention hitch weight, etc. Can anyone draw me a picture with stick figures and simple numbers to figure out what I should or should not do?

I honestly feel stupid asking, as I have researched, read forums, asked around...etc. And I feel like I've still got questions.

Here's an obvious example of what I see when shopping around:



Thanks a lot!

Chris
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-07-02 at 10.19.36 AM.png
Views:	22
Size:	27.4 KB
ID:	251914  
__________________

__________________
=========================
2012 Winnebago Access 31RP
2016 MPG 2800QB
halvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-02-2019, 11:46 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 18,176
Yes the numbers game can be daunting ; but ; in order to be of any real help, to make sure your within the trucks limits , members will need scale weight numbers for the truck and the axle ratings from the door post.

So , fill the truck with fuel , load up with passengers and gear; that you figure you'd carry on a trip; and take the truck across the Cat scale at a truck stop . Get three weights , front axle , total truck weight ,and rear axle as you pull through the scale.

The weight of the hitch in the truck , plus the pin weight of the trailer, in your example will put nearly 2,500 lbs load onto the trucks rear axle . You have to be SURE the trucks suspension and tires will carry that much load .
Having the scale weights is the first step, because right now , I'll go out on a limb and say that's too much trailer for your truck.
__________________

__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2019, 12:25 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
halvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Great Northwest
Posts: 25
Hi Skip,

Thanks for the quick response.

That is great advice to find the exact weights of loaded truck, etc. Thank you for that. It does seem a bit of a large step to have to take, but I do understand getting all of the data necessary, for sure!

It's interesting that you say at first glance, '...I'll go out on a limb and say that's too much trailer for your truck.' Because talking to the sales guys at the dealer, they're saying dry weight of 10,000 lbs gives plenty of room if 15,900 is the truck's limit.

Here's more info from the Truck...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190702_112137.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	478.7 KB
ID:	251922   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190702_112150.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	365.2 KB
ID:	251923  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2019_07_02 11_51 AM Office Lens.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	306.3 KB
ID:	251924  
__________________
=========================
2012 Winnebago Access 31RP
2016 MPG 2800QB
halvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2019, 01:11 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,619
Holy moly thats the lowest CCC I've ever seen for a 3/4 ton diesel truck. Previous was in the low 1900's.
With that being said 1782 lbs is nowhere near enough for any 5th wheel. Add in you and ?, plus gear and hitch (200 lbs) and you barely have enough for a large travel trailer.
No doubt you could pull and stop a large 5th wheel but you just can't carry the pin.
Cumminsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2019, 01:43 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,021
Your truck has a Rear Axle Weight Rating of 6100#


12,000# 5th wheel will have a WET pin of 2400 - 2600 #
Add that to curb weight of truck, hitch weight and passengers/stuff you will ne RIGHT AT THAT RAWR and just under the Tire Max Load Ratings


I have a 6200# RAWR
Tow a 14K 5th wheel (scaled 13,873)
3080# wet pin.....puts be at RAWR and under Tire Load Ratings




Published UVW (dry weight) is an AVERAGE for that model/trim level
Published Hitch weight is DRY hitch based on UVW
NEITHER of those two weights have much meaning ----no one tows dry unloaded trailer
Those dry weights do provide one calculation.....percentage of pin weight
In your example:
Dry weight ------ 10,800#
Hitch weight ---- 2,280#
That is a 21% pin weight ratio
GVWR ----16,000# at 21% = 3360# pin wet


With your F250 ------12000# GVWR 5vr so wet pin doesn't overload your RAWR of 6100#
__________________
Is it time for YOUR medication or MINE
2007 Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor & NUWA 5vr
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
Old-Biscuit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2019, 04:06 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: TN
Posts: 85
I would never ask the salesman a towing question, and being a 3/4 ton owner myself, I would not want a FW over 12k to 13k gross weight rating.
Garyp4951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2019, 08:19 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,375
Halvo....
Fords 15xxx lb tow rating is for all types of trailers...not just a 5th wheel rv trailer.
I have a 16k triaxle stock trailer I pull with my 2500 Dodge/Cummins. It does fine at 16k lbs.
I can load the trailer with light weight stuff in the front of the trailer and heavy animals over the trailers axles so I don't exceed my trucks 6000 RAWR.
A 15k 5th wheel trailer has a fixed pin weight and not much weight can be moved around to keep from overloading the RAWR (rear suspension/tires/wheels).

Ford does offer a heavy service pack/camper package as a option. This gives the F250 the same front and rear suspension/tires/wheels as a F350 SRW. The rest of the 250/350 srw truck is the same. Have a Ford truck dealer run the VIN number to see if any package is added.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 06:23 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 10
GVWR= GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING. On the first photo from your trucks info it states CLEARLY
GVWR NOT TO EXCEED 10,000 POUNDS. (Total of the truck, fluids, passengers, HITCH , tools,etc, etc, everything the way you would travel, full fuel tank, passengers, pets and EVERYTHING ELSE IN ON AND AROUND AND ATTACHED.
THAT IS WHY YOU NEED THE SCALED WEIGHTS

GAWR = GROSS AXLE WEIGHT RATING. Again unless you know exactly what you're weights are then you WONT know how much weight you have left over. Meaning your available payload for the pin weight.

If you look at the first picture it again states your axle ratings for each axle.
Front Axle weight RATING is #5600 pounds
Rear Axle weight RATING is #6100 pounds

Once you get the real weights on the scale, you can deduct the actual weight scales number from the Axle rating to find out what you have left over. Say the scale weight on the Rear Axle comes in at # 4800 pounds, then take the #6100 subtract the #4800 and it leaves you a payload of #1300 pounds for the hitch and pin weight of the trailer.


Now for the last picture you posted from the Ford site. This is one of the biggest jokes that they post. You would need a truck that is BARE BONES to even get close to those advertised weights.

EXAMPLE,, your truck weights are as follows
Scales say your truck weighs fully loaded #7650 and the posted GVWR is #10,000. Take the SCALED weight and subtract it from the GVWR 10,000- 7650 leaves you 2350 pounds left over. Great
Scale says your rear axle weight is 3800 pounds, take the posted weight rating for the rear axle 6100lbs and subtract 3800. That leaves you #2300 that you can Safely put on the rear axle. That is what the max pin weight should be.

Next is the tires listed, if I'm correct and if not please correct me, but the weight rating on them is only #1782 pounds per tire so double that for both rear tires and your limited to only carry safely #3564 pounds on those rear tires. Not enough to get you to the axle limits on the rear of #6100 pounds. Need better tires for sure.

Now let's take the dealer that could care less if you're overweight. They make their check by selling you the most they can no matter what the truth is about weight.
So the salesperson says that you can tow a fiver of 15,000 pounds. Not so fast, the GVWR of the fiver is 15,000 FULLY LOADED.
The advertised pin weight says it only #1890 pounds. You think Great it will work because I weighed the truck and I have 2300 pounds left for pin weight ,,WRONG,, what that salesperson didn't tell you about is that the advertised pin weight is what the pin weight was coming out of the factory, before awnings, battery, propane and ANYTHING ELSE was added to the weight of the trailer.
Your pin weight in real world situations can range from 18% to 25% of the loaded weight of the trailer. So a fully loaded 15,000 pound trailer with a light pin weight of 18% is 2700 pounds, a realistic 25% pin weight would be 3750 pounds of pin weight.
Your available payload for pin weight as stated in the example above is only 2300 pounds. Even at a very light 18% for pin weight (2700 pounds) is well over your axle ratings and GVWR of the truck.

UVWR UNLOADED VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING is just that. The bare bones before anything is put into or onto the vehicle.
Fawny43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 06:26 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawny43 View Post

Next is the tires listed, if I'm correct and if not please correct me, but the weight rating on them is only #1782 pounds per tire so double that for both rear tires and your limited to only carry safely #3564 pounds on those rear tires. Not enough to get you to the axle limits on the rear of #6100 pounds. Need better tires for sure.
No that number is the stated CCC based on GVWR minus curb weight of built truck. E range tires rated over 3000 lbs, and factory tires are used to calculate RAWR labeled on truck, usually tires are the weak link so the 6100 RAWR means at least 3050 per tire on factory rubber.

As far as the low CCC of that truck, many states have significantly higher registration fees on vehicles with GVWRs over 10k, that’s why most (not all) 3/4 tons have that rating. With modern emissions, luxury interiors and heavier frames the trucks are getting more obese but the laws governing their limits stay the same.
redhooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 07:43 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 50
65 psi.... seems epic low.
imjustdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 04:31 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 10
The 65 psi on those tires could be because they are 20 inch tires so less rubber and more rim.
Fawny43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 10:13 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
KZ RV Club
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 149
My 2018 F350 has 20” tires with rear inflation of 80 psi
Regards Ron
__________________
Regards, Ron
2018 Ford F350 6.7L CC LB SRW w/factory gooseball
2019 KZ Durango Gold 380FLF w/16K Reese Goosebox
baranski37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 11:12 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by imjustdave View Post
65 psi.... seems epic low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawny43 View Post
The 65 psi on those tires could be because they are 20 inch tires so less rubber and more rim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranski37 View Post
My 2018 F350 has 20” tires with rear inflation of 80 psi
Regards Ron

F-350's are at 80PSI to support 3640lbs per tire and its 7230lbs RAWR
F-250's are at 65PSI to support 3050lbs per tire and its 6100lbs RAWR

My 18" tires also require 80PSI.

Same tire usually, just running a lower PSI as its "technically" needs to carry less.
__________________
2017 F-350 6.7 Diesel, CCSB SRW, FX4. Curt Q16/R16 - 11.5K GVWR
2005 Alfa SeeYa! SYF30RLIK - 16.2K GVWR, 4xGC2, 600W Solar MPPT
--Full time July 2016 to January 2019--
mrgrayaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 12:00 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,200
Dry weight - forget that, it's a useless figure.

GVWR is the maximum weight your trailer should weigh. Pin weight is how much weight your trailer's hitch puts into the bed of your truck. Pin weight is subtracted from your truck's payload figure and, hopefully, leaves some room to carry some people. But if you go over the Payload figure there isn't anybody going to arrest you for it.

When you go to the scales your trailer may weigh 16,000 total pounds but might have 2200 pounds on the hitch so the actual weight on the trailer tires is 14,800 pounds (16,000-2200).
__________________

V3600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weight



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is dry weight vs GVWR tell you the quality? tuffr2 Travel Trailer Discussion 24 05-04-2018 04:05 PM
Dry (shipping) Weight = Axle Weight + Pin Weight? Old Bill Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 11 12-05-2016 04:58 PM
GVWR vs dry weight plus cargo capacity ArcticLyn Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 6 07-09-2015 10:54 PM
I read the dry weight listed is not actual dry weight of trailer on lot??? TXDIANIMAL 5th Wheel Discussion 23 07-11-2014 06:17 AM
gvwr, gvwr, ? on towing, overloadiing jwine Class A Motorhome Discussions 8 12-09-2008 02:23 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.