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Paw John · 12-19-2011, 04:59 AM

LadyFitz

That will be a good thing and will save money on the install. Shorter main power run and not having to buy an electric disconnect. You do a lot of good researching before you act on something. I hope your dream comes true.
I Wish Every Body A Merry Christmas And A Happy New Years.

LadyFitz... · 12-19-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

LadyFitz

That will be a good thing and will save money on the install. Shorter main power run and not having to buy an electric disconnect. You do a lot of good researching before you act on something. I hope your dream comes true.
I Wish Every Body A Merry Christmas And A Happy New Years.

And a Happy Christmas and Merry New Year to you and yours (and no, I'm not drunk; just weird)!

One reason I threw out the ideas on the the heat pumps, and especially the breakers, to let people know they have options. By using the existing 50A panel to fuse the Cheap Heat, I not only avoid buying a disconnect, I also avoid the problem of where to put a disconnect and still have easy access to it, a huge problem in the TT I want to get, and can still keep all the breakers in one panel. I'm anal about details like that.

I had another thought strike me a few minutes ago (yeah, it hurt). There have been people who have been carping about Cheap Heat being inadequate on 30A services. If they were to replace the disconnect panel one normally has to install when installing Cheap Heat with a 50A panel, put in a 50A two pole main breaker with two 30A branch two pole breakers, one feeding the existing panel and one feeding Cheap Heat, and replace the shore line with a 50A rated one, they would gain the ability to run the full 5000w rating of the Cheap Heat. During warmer weather when the Cheap heat wouldn't be needed, they could still run on 30A services by using an adapter.

LadyFitz... · 12-19-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

...If they were to replace the disconnect panel one normally has to install when installing Cheap Heat with a 50A panel, put in a 50A two pole main breaker with two 30A branch two pole breakers, one feeding the existing panel and one feeding Cheap Heat,...

Ok, I goofed here. It should read:

...If they were to replace the disconnect panel one normally has to install when installing Cheap Heat with a 50A panel, put in a 50A two pole main breaker with one 30A branch single pole breaker feeding the existing panel and one 30A branch two pole breaker feeding Cheap Heat,...

I forgot about 30A sevices needing only 120v.

Paw John · 12-19-2011, 10:49 AM

LadyFitz

That would make a good upgrade while upgrading the heater system you upgrade to a 50 amp service. Great thought !!! I was on the woodale open roads fourm and read a few threads on the Cheap Heat system. They have a bunch of nonbelievers out there in this World. Why not install the Cheap Heat system instead of using Two or Three portable heaters eather running on small propane gas cylinders or electric. Also one in the under belly of a camper. In my mind that is dangerous due to the cords overheating and the one left in the basement out of site. Just my feelings on the subject. My son will be in from Offshore Wednesday and I will have him come over and check the Amp Draw on my service with the Cheap Heat System running and with it off. That should let me know exactly what this system draws. I will update as soon as posible with findings.

LadyFitz... · 12-19-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

LadyFitz

That would make a good upgrade while upgrading the heater system you upgrade to a 50 amp service. Great thought !!! I was on the woodale open roads fourm and read a few threads on the Cheap Heat system. They have a bunch of nonbelievers out there in this World. Why not install the Cheap Heat system instead of using Two or Three portable heaters eather running on small propane gas cylinders or electric. Also one in the under belly of a camper. In my mind that is dangerous due to the cords overheating and the one left in the basement out of site. Just my feelings on the subject. My son will be in from Offshore Wednesday and I will have him come over and check the Amp Draw on my service with the Cheap Heat System running and with it off. That should let me know exactly what this system draws. I will update as soon as posible with findings.

Keep in mind the upgrade I proposed isn't going to be a true 50A service. A true 50A RV service is essentially 100A @120v. The upgrade I proposed would be part 30A 120v and 30A 240v. One would be able to run only up to 15-18A on the original panel without tripping breakers while the Cheap Heat was running but since the A/C wouldn't be running, it would probably work out fine. Of course, one could run 3750w instead of 5000w if the larger rating crowded things too much. One could add additional 120v circuits to the more lightly loaded side of the added panel.

The 5,000w heating coil theoretically will pull about 21A at 240v plus whatever the parasitic draw is. I don't know if Cheap Heat switches on the furnace fan through the furnace's power source or if it runs the fan from Cheap Heat's power (although my guess is it switches the furnace power since the fan runs on 120v instead of 240v which the Cheap Heat could be receiving). Obviously, the draw of the furnace fan would be a variable dependent on the furnace used.

Paw John · 12-19-2011, 03:36 PM

LadyFitz

The heater blower runs on 12 volts not 120 volts. The wire coming from the thermostat to the heater unit that turns the on gas side of the operation. That wire is cut and spliced into it. It goes to the cheap heat electric / gas switch and then returnes and ties into the wire going into the gas side of the circuit. So when you put the electric / gas switch in gas position it bypasses the cheap heat controler and works on gas. When you switch it to electric it sends 12 volts to the contorler from thermostat and then activates the 240 volt heater coil and the 12 volt blower motor. The controler gets it's 12 volts from the heater unit ( + & - wiring ). I will try to scan the wiring diagram and attach. My system the blower motor is wired on high speed. the controler has three speed setings. Also every body is worried about the heater coil restricting the air flow. I don't think it will because the plenum is larger than the existing plenum and the heater coil is about 1 & 1/2 to 2 inches form the gas fire box. Hope this will help .

LadyFitz... · 12-19-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

LadyFitz

The heater blower runs on 12 volts not 120 volts. The wire coming from the thermostat to the heater unit that turns the on gas side of the operation. That wire is cut and spliced into it. It goes to the cheap heat electric / gas switch and then returnes and ties into the wire going into the gas side of the circuit. So when you put the electric / gas switch in gas position it bypasses the cheap heat controler and works on gas. When you switch it to electric it sends 12 volts to the contorler from thermostat and then activates the 240 volt heater coil and the 12 volt blower motor. The controler gets it's 12 volts from the heater unit ( + & - wiring ). I will try to scan the wiring diagram and attach. My system the blower motor is wired on high speed. the controler has three speed setings. Also every body is worried about the heater coil restricting the air flow. I don't think it will because the plenum is larger than the existing plenum and the heater coil is about 1 & 1/2 to 2 inches form the gas fire box. Hope this will help .

Oops! One zero too many. Sorry.

I know what you mean about people being concerned about the heating coils excessively restricting airflow. Az Bound has already tested the airflow and found it to not be excessively restrictive. Besides, furnaces have to be able to stand a certain amoiunt of restriction because people will want to close or restrict registers to balance the heat. Any excessive restriction would trip the high limit switch in the furnace so there really is no danger. But then, try to tell that to the fish.

TXiceman · 12-19-2011, 06:31 PM

You should not depend on riding the high limit switch as a means of controlling an restricted and over-heating heater. The high limit is intended to be a safety and not a control. It is not intended to cycle that frequently and will wear out, hopefully in the open position and not welded closed.

If you intend to restrict the air flow to the p oint of excessive temperatures, you need to add a high temperature operating switch set a bit lower than the high limit.

Just remember that safety switches are there as a safety.

Ken

LadyFitz... · 12-20-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

You should not depend on riding the high limit switch as a means of controlling an restricted and over-heating heater. The high limit is intended to be a safety and not a control. It is not intended to cycle that frequently and will wear out, hopefully in the open position and not welded closed.

If you intend to restrict the air flow to the p oint of excessive temperatures, you need to add a high temperature operating switch set a bit lower than the high limit.

Just remember that safety switches are there as a safety.

Ken

You are absolutely correct. It wasn't anyone's intention to deliberately
restrict airflow to the extreme the high limit switch would do it's thing. I was pointing that the scoffers argument that the Cheap Heat would create enough air restriction to crack the heat exchanger was invlid because the high limt switch would prevent it from getting hot enough to do damage. It would be foolish to continue to use the system if the high limit kept tripping until the restriction was corrected.

Paw John · 12-20-2011, 03:38 PM

LadyFitz

Contact me if you get a chance, I need to talk. It's about another subject.

Paw John · 12-21-2011, 05:14 AM

I been thinking of what some people are saying about this Cheap Heat system can't use the gas side as back up if the electricity fails. After reading this I came up with the use of a soleniod / relay that will monitor the electric side and send 12 volt power to a second thermostat that will operate the gas side of the heater system. If this can be done, then this system will back up each other. What do you'al think ?? Is this doable.

Paw John · 12-21-2011, 10:38 AM

TXiceman

I noticed that when my Cheap Heat system was running and I was sitting out side of the camper. I put my hand over the outlet side of the external ports of the Gas Heater unit and it was warm air coming out. Before with the gas unit running you can't keep your hand on the outlet port. So I'm thinking that the Cheap Heat coil is not transfering as much heat to the gas unit fire box as you think.

Paw John · 12-24-2011, 01:32 PM

Ok I had my son over this morning and we checked the draw on the 50 amp service. With every thing off except the converter. One leg had 0 draw and the second leg had .7 amp draw from the converter. I turned on the Cheap Heat system and one leg went to 20 amps and the other leg was at 19 amps. Turned on the electric hot water heater, the ice box on electric and all the lights that I could reach with out sliding the slides. The amp draw was 22 amps and 23 amps on the other. The only thing that I didn't turn on was the microwave. Also I checked the Cheap Heat system on start up the draw spiked to 22 amps and then dropped to the above readings. Hope this helps any of you make your mind up if this system is for you.

TXiceman · 12-24-2011, 01:57 PM

Paw John, there is a big difference with the electric and the gas heat. When on gas heat, you are burning a propane flame in the burn chamber and the efficiency of the heater is not very high, probably about 60%, so a lot of the heat goes up the flue.

When on electric, the heat source on the outside of the burn chamber and you are wasting some heat as you are heating the chamber and letting the heat goes up the flue. The way to get away from the wasted electrical is to use a separate fan fro the electric heat.

ken