Community Forums

az bound · 12-01-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

Thanks LADYFITZ

That post was very educational, If they only know !!!!
As for the Atwood Information Notice about No !! Electric Heating Kits add on allowed to their units due to the rist of integrity of the heat exchanger and increase the possibility for CO leakage. The heat exchanger system is a contained system and the plenum is attached to the outside of the units housing and is not doing any thing to the heater unit itself. I feel that they know this system works and they are sorry that they didn't think of it first. So they are going to loose out on a lot of money.

My camper is a 2004 model and I think that it is well out of any warranty options. I own this camper and I know this system will save me money in the long haul.

I have been following your thread and am curious as to the total cost of the installation. I know it was done as a DIY project so labor was not a factor.

Paw John · 12-01-2011, 11:12 AM

az bound

You do know that I was able to purchace this system as a dealer due to no one in this area was interested in becoming a dealer. This system sell for $ 880.50 dollars. This kit has the plenum, 6- 4'' duct ports, the heater coil, electric / gas switch, wiring for the switch to the gas unit and the wiring from the controller to the heater coil & the controller it self. The price mention above is not the dealers cost. Then there is freight and taxes. Now I oppted out to purchace the 30 amp disconnect from my local lowe's store and also the 220 wiring and conduit piping needed. this cost me about $ 130.00 . As you know I saved on labor arround $ 500.00 to 700.00 labor cost. This system if I was to install in some body's unit would cost arround $ 1600.00 to 1700.00 dollars. Hope this helps.

LadyFitz... · 12-01-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

Thanks LADYFITZ

That post was very educational, If they only know !!!!
As for the Atwood Information Notice about No !! Electric Heating Kits add on allowed to their units due to the rist of integrity of the heat exchanger and increase the possibility for CO leakage. The heat exchanger system is a contained system and the plenum is attached to the outside of the units housing and is not doing any thing to the heater unit itself. I feel that they know this system works and they are sorry that they didn't think of it first. So they are going to loose out on a lot of money.

My camper is a 2004 model and I think that it is well out of any warranty options. I own this camper and I know this system will save me money in the long haul.

I suspect, as someone on RV.net also suggested, the no add on statement was just boiler plate to cover their backsides in case someone misinstalls something. If I go this route, I'll just keep the old parts and reinstall them before hauling it down to the dealer for repair. If the wire to the fan has to be spliced in, it can be done with connectors so the existing wire can be restored with no sign it was disturbed.

Paw John · 12-01-2011, 01:19 PM

You know that if this system is installed on an Atwood heater and used. I see no warranty situations arising due to the unit never being used on gas unless you are in a boomdocking site. Just a thought. I think if enought people request this system installed at the factory when they order their new RV'S it would open their eye's.

LadyFitz... · 12-01-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

You know that if this system is installed on an Atwood heater and used. I see no warranty situations arising due to the unit never being used on gas unless you are in a boomdocking site. Just a thought. I think if enought people request this system installed at the factory when they order their new RV'S it would open their eye's.

The furnace control boards and the blower could always fail even if running the heating element and not burning gas.

Running on gas is an option that would be useful if the power goes out since the furnace will run on battery power (for a while, depending on the batteries).

Palpatine · 12-02-2011, 06:59 AM

Paw John-

I'm glad that you were satisfied your system worked. However I raised this question before and since you asked why aren't manufacturer's installing this unit, I will give you some insight into your heating system.

This system has not been submitted for UL certification and is not UL approved. Just because it has some items that were UL approved for their intended purposes, does not mean the unit as a whole has any UL standing. So I ask, why not? If it was at least UL approved you could probably get it installed by some third party RV service people, but I doubt any reputable serviceman (a RVIA certified) will install it.

Secondly, it is not RVIA certified. Any manufacturer installs only items that are RVIA certified in order to keep their RVIA decal on their trailers. If they lost that decal then the trailer probably would be laughed off the dealers lot.

So you asked why not installed in most RV's? Well why isn't it UL certified? Why isn't it RVIA certified? Get it submitted for both of these, proven safe and then they might talk with you.

I didn't mention the BIG reason NOT to have this installed at this time - insurance. If you failed to mention that you have installed this item and the facts as I stated them - not UL approved, etc - then you will have big trouble if you have a fire, etc. Your insurance adjuster will have a fit. Oh, I know you're going to say that it's safe. But with out a lab testing it, how are you assured it's safe? Even tested items have failure and when they do your insurance covers those items.

LadyFitz... · 12-02-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palpatine

Paw John-

I'm glad that you were satisfied your system worked. However I raised this question before and since you asked why aren't manufacturer's installing this unit, I will give you some insight into your heating system.

This system has not been submitted for UL certification and is not UL approved. Just because it has some items that were UL approved for their intended purposes, does not mean the unit as a whole has any UL standing. So I ask, why not? If it was at least UL approved you could probably get it installed by some third party RV service people, but I doubt any reputable serviceman (a RVIA certified) will install it.

Secondly, it is not RVIA certified. Any manufacturer installs only items that are RVIA certified in order to keep their RVIA decal on their trailers. If they lost that decal then the trailer probably would be laughed off the dealers lot.

So you asked why not installed in most RV's? Well why isn't it UL certified? Why isn't it RVIA certified? Get it submitted for both of these, proven safe and then they might talk with you.

I didn't mention the BIG reason NOT to have this installed at this time - insurance. If you failed to mention that you have installed this item and the facts as I stated them - not UL approved, etc - then you will have big trouble if you have a fire, etc. Your insurance adjuster will have a fit. Oh, I know you're going to say that it's safe. But with out a lab testing it, how are you assured it's safe? Even tested items have failure and when they do your insurance covers those items.

Curious. The Girard Tankless Water heater is not RVIA cerified or UL listed yet is being installed in RVs by many manufacurers like Forest River, Jayco, Lance, Monaco, MVP, Outdoor RV, and Thor.

Also, there are certified RV techs installing it. One well known RV tech, Gary Bunzer, endorses it.

I seriously doubt insurance is going to be an issue. All they are likely to know is the fire started in the furnace, if even that. If a fire is started by careless use of smoking materials or a pan left unattended on the stove, they still pay up. If a fire is started by a portable heater left too close to the drapes, they still pay up.

Paw John · 12-02-2011, 08:16 AM

I understand your comments on this subject. But don't you think that if enought people push for this type of system installed into their new RV'S at time of build. Above mention concerns would be address and this system are one of equal value would be offered at time of build. This would also bring the price down below half price. I know that there are portable propane & electric heaters out there that will do the same job. I did that and got the burn mark to show for it. Yes I had Three portable heaters going at one time during one of my camping trips. For some reason you can't find a safe place to put them & yes the bad thing will happen. One of my Grand Kid knocked one over and It scared me so much that I reached over and grabed it. Nice burn and now I don't need to worry about this again. That's why I feel that if enought people inquire about this during the new unit ordering that those Manufacturing Co. might develope their own system are push to get the Cheap Heat system cleared and start installing them. Just a thought!!!!!!!! Yes I'm a dealer for the Cheap Heat system, but that was the only way to get one installed into my RV. I would of paid to have it installed if there would of been a dealer in my area. I think this upgrade is worth the saving's on gas, on hurting your back from removing those propane bottles & from the possibility of some one accidently knocking one over. Thanks for every body's time and imputs. Hope to meet up somewhere down the road and you all could see first hand how this system is working. Happy Trails

LadyFitz... · 12-02-2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palpatine

...Also, what you are doing is going to raise the cost for all of us who do not have electric heaters. Eventually the owners of the campgrounds you visit will determine that their electric bill is running higher and will have to raise their cost to cover the increased expense. This is since you refuse to stay for a month where they measure the electric usage on your unit and charge you accordingly. Do you tell them when you are contacting them that you have electric heat? No, so what you are doing is deceitful, isn't it? Laying the cost of extra electricity off on the campground owner.

And I suppose all the campers who are using portable electric heaters are also being deceitful. What about the ones who have installed large residential refrigerators. Unless a CG states up front there is an extra charge for electricity when using certain appliances, as is often done for A/Cs, there is no deceit involved.

LadyFitz... · 12-02-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw John

Just letting every body know that I also have a video of a factory installation...

Did they send you the video or is it available online?

Ray,IN · 12-02-2011, 08:59 PM

LadyFitz, I refer you back to the first page - post #12.

LadyFitz... · 12-02-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

LadyFitz, I refer you back to the first page - post #12.

Ok, humor an old lady. What am I supposed to be looking for?

RustyJC · 12-03-2011, 05:37 AM

How exactly would an electric central heat system differ from having electric strip heat installed in the A/C unit(s)? These strip heaters have been available for decades. Of course, electric strip heat in conjunction with heat pumps would be even more efficient.

There's still no getting around Ohm's law - the amount of heat available from strip heaters is going to be limited by the amperage available to devote to resistance heaters.

Rusty

az bound · 12-03-2011, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyJC

How exactly would an electric central heat system differ from having electric strip heat installed in the A/C unit(s)? These strip heaters have been available for decades. Of course, electric strip heat in conjunction with heat pumps would be even more efficient.

There's still no getting around Ohm's law - the amount of heat available from strip heaters is going to be limited by the amperage available to devote to resistance heaters.

Rusty

Normaly the added heatstrip for rooftop ac will put out about 1,500 watts or 5,000 BTU,
The electric central heat is capable of 5,000 watts or around 17,000 BTU, so in essence three heatstrips or 1,500 watt space heaters would not equal the BTU output of a single larger heat element.