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Old 04-22-2013, 11:35 AM   #29
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I just traded in a 2011 Ford F150 5.0 V8 for a 2013 Ford F150 3.55 eco boost with the towing package.

The V8 was horrible towing my 2013 Jayco Eagle HT(Half ton) trailer. It saged and the front of my truck shot up in the air and it pulled horribly.

The Eco Boost which is a V6 is awesome! It tows my trailer as though I was pulling a U-Haul trailer.

The Jayco HT 27.5 BHS weighs 7500 lbs with full propane tanks. The fifth wheel weighs 165 pounds + the total weight of my wife and I = 480 lbs plus food, bottled water and cloths and tools - ad an extra 300 lbs totaling - 8,445 pounds.

The Eco boost V6 owners manual says I can haul a total weight of 9,300 pounds. The truck pulls hills in access of 70 MPH before I slow it down but she will still pull and operate in a safe manner.

Never haul water it adds an addition 400+ pounds to your weight. I always dump the tanks before I leave the camping site. It will save you wear and tear on your transmission.

My V8 that I owned and traded in says it would only haul 7300 pounds and I was overweight when hauling my trailer so that is why I traded it in for the Eco boost 3.55 V6. I drove for 150 miles with the trailer and burnt a little less than a 1/4 tank of gas.

While I am new to RV -ing - 5 th wheel with a half ton truck - I am not new to driving tractor trailers as I have driven for the Army in access of 26 years and have over 3 million miles of safe driving experience I addition to driving for contractors as well. There is not mush difference but the units are smaller compared to the big rigs.

Watch your weight because it can cause steering(which you can feel) and brake control problems(which you can feel when you try and stop) when you really need it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by dvw20748 View Post
The Eco boost V6 owners manual says I can haul a total weight of 9,300 pounds.
No, it doesn't say that. It says you can tow a maximum trailer weight of 9,300 pounds, PROVIDED you don't exceed any of the weight limits of your F-150 - specifically the GCWR, GVWR and rear GAWR of your F-150. And provided your wet and loaded F-150 weighs less than 5,600 pounds before you tie onto the trailer. (14,900 GCWR minus 9,300 tow rating = 5,600 pounds max weight of the F-150 before you tie onto the trailer.)

Quote:
The truck pulls hills in excess of 70 MPH before I slow it down, but she will still pull and operate in a safe manner.
"Safe manner" is your conclusion. Ford doesn't agree with your conclusion if your exceed the GVWR of your F-150. Sure, you can pull that weight with that strong little EcoBoost engine. But you cannot haul the ~1,400 pounds of hitch weight without being overloaded. And overloaded is not towing in a "safe manner".

Quote:
The Jayco HT 27.5 BHS weighs 7500 lbs with full propane tanks. The fifth wheel weighs 165 pounds + the total weight of my wife and I = 480 lbs plus food, bottled water and cloths and tools - ad an extra 300 lbs totaling - 8,445 pounds.
That paragraph doesn't make sense. It's not your gross trailer weight, because it includes driver and passenger and 5er hitch, and those weights are on the pickup, not the trailer. It's not your gross payload, because the payload includes only the 1,400 pounds hitch weight, not the gross trailer weight. So that 8,445 number is a meaningless number.

So did you mean your estimated wet and loaded trailer weight is 7,500 + plus food, bottled water and cloths and tools - add an extra 300 lbs for a gross trailer weight of 7,800 pounds?

But gross trailer weight doesn't matter as long the trailer weight plus the weight of the wet and loaded pickup does not exceed the 14,900 pounds (4x2) or 15,100 pounds (4x4) GCWR of your pickup.

What does matter is that the weight of the wet and loaded pickup, including the hitch weight of the wet and loaded trailer, does not exceed the 7,100 (4x2) or 7,200 (4x4) pounds GVWR of the tow vehicle.

The purpose of the rest of this post is not to jump on you, but to use your post as an example to warn others that they probably cannot tow a 5er with F-150s that have 7,100 or 7,200 pounds GVWR without being overloaded

Like most folks who claim they can tow a fifth wheel trailer with their F-150, you don't show us the GVWR of your truck or the weight on the two truck axles when you have the wet and loaded rig on a CAT scale. Those scale weights would prove you are overloaded with that trailer tied onto your F-150.

Jayco Eagle HT 27.5BHS Weights:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 7,135
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 1,350
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 9,950
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 2,815

Your estimate of a wet and loaded 5er weight of only 7,800 pounds is way underestimated. Even with no fresh water and with empty holding tanks, the CAT scale is probably going to show your wet and loaded trailer axle weight at close to 7,000 pounds. Your hitch weight of 18.9% added to trailer axle weight of 7,000 pounds means a gross trailer weight over 8,000 pounds, which will have a pin weight of over 1,400 pounds.

My old Ford F-250 diesel CrewCab with GVWR of 8,800 pounds was overloaded with a 25' 5er with one slide that grossed 8,000 pounds. So you don't stand a chance of towing an 8,000-pound 5er with an F-150 that has a GVWR of 7,100 or 7,200 pounds without being overloaded.

My 2012 SuperCrew EcoBoost 4x2 with 7,100 GVWR is overloaded with a TT that grosses less than 5,000 pounds. With your tow rating of 9,300 pounds, that means your F-150 doesn't have either the max tow pkg or the HD payload package, so your GVWR is either 7,100 (4x2) or 7,200 (4x4) pounds. Therefore I don't have much doubt that you're overloaded over the GVWR of your F-150, even with an empty 5er.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post

No, it doesn't say that. It says you can tow a maximum trailer weight of 9,300 pounds, PROVIDED you don't exceed any of the weight limits of your F-150 - specifically the GCWR, GVWR and rear GAWR of your F-150. And provided your wet and loaded F-150 weighs less than 5,600 pounds before you tie onto the trailer. (14,900 GCWR minus 9,300 tow rating = 5,600 pounds max weight of the F-150 before you tie onto the trailer.)

"Safe manner" is your conclusion. Ford doesn't agree with your conclusion if your exceed the GVWR of your F-150. Sure, you can pull that weight with that strong little EcoBoost engine. But you cannot haul the ~1,400 pounds of hitch weight without being overloaded. And overloaded is not towing in a "safe manner".

That paragraph doesn't make sense. It's not your gross trailer weight, because it includes driver and passenger and 5er hitch, and those weights are on the pickup, not the trailer. It's not your gross payload, because the payload includes only the 1,400 pounds hitch weight, not the gross trailer weight. So that 8,445 number is a meaningless number.

So did you mean your estimated wet and loaded trailer weight is 7,500 + plus food, bottled water and cloths and tools - add an extra 300 lbs for a gross trailer weight of 7,800 pounds?

But gross trailer weight doesn't matter as long the trailer weight plus the weight of the wet and loaded pickup does not exceed the 14,900 pounds (4x2) or 15,100 pounds (4x4) GCWR of your pickup.

What does matter is that the weight of the wet and loaded pickup, including the hitch weight of the wet and loaded trailer, does not exceed the 7,100 (4x2) or 7,200 (4x4) pounds GVWR of the tow vehicle.

The purpose of the rest of this post is not to jump on you, but to use your post as an example to warn others that they probably cannot tow a 5er with F-150s that have 7,100 or 7,200 pounds GVWR without being overloaded

Like most folks who claim they can tow a fifth wheel trailer with their F-150, you don't show us the GVWR of your truck or the weight on the two truck axles when you have the wet and loaded rig on a CAT scale. Those scale weights would prove you are overloaded with that trailer tied onto your F-150.

Jayco Eagle HT 27.5BHS Weights:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 7,135
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 1,350
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 9,950
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 2,815

Your estimate of a wet and loaded 5er weight of only 7,800 pounds is way underestimated. Even with no fresh water and with empty holding tanks, the CAT scale is probably going to show your wet and loaded trailer axle weight at close to 7,000 pounds. Your hitch weight of 18.9% added to trailer axle weight of 7,000 pounds means a gross trailer weight over 8,000 pounds, which will have a pin weight of over 1,400 pounds.

My old Ford F-250 diesel CrewCab with GVWR of 8,800 pounds was overloaded with a 25' 5er with one slide that grossed 8,000 pounds. So you don't stand a chance of towing an 8,000-pound 5er with an F-150 that has a GVWR of 7,100 or 7,200 pounds without being overloaded.

My 2012 SuperCrew EcoBoost 4x2 with 7,100 GVWR is overloaded with a TT that grosses less than 5,000 pounds. With your tow rating of 9,300 pounds, that means your F-150 doesn't have either the max tow pkg or the HD payload package, so your GVWR is either 7,100 (4x2) or 7,200 (4x4) pounds. Therefore I don't have much doubt that you're overloaded over the GVWR of your F-150, even with an empty 5er.
Trailer life this month(may) has a great feature article on "half-ton fun" and lists a lot of the lightweight 5th wheels. Their premise is that the industry is heading towards a plethora of 6,000 pound and less 5th wheels due to gas prices and building 5ths lighter. This debate will never end but the article is a good read and some new 5ths discussed are under 4,000 pounds but still big enough for many couples. The F150 could pull some of the units they discuss but not all in my opinion. They mention the Tundra and Sierra but that is a stretch!
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:50 PM   #32
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The F150 could pull some of the units they discuss but not all in my opinion.
Some of the late-model F-150s could tow an 8,000 pound 5er without being overloaded. But those F-150s have the HD Payload package with 8,200 GVWR. And those F-150s with the HD payload pkg are few and far between.

8,000 pound 5er with 18% hitch weight would have hitch weight of 1,440 pounds.

GVWR of 8,200 pounds minus 1,440 hitch weight is a wet and loaded F-150 that grosses less than 6,760 pounds. Wet and loaded F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew 4x4 with 5er hitch and 6.5' bed ready to tow could easily be loaded to gross less than 6,760 before you tie onto the trailer.

GCWR on that 2013 F-150 is 17,100 pounds. 17,100 minus 6,760 pounds max truck weight = 10,340 pounds max trailer weight without busting the GCWR of the tow vehicle, so a lot more than the 8,000 pound trailer max weight.

So with an 8,000-pound 5er and a wet and loaded truck weight of less than 6,760, you're not overloaded over either the GVWR or the GCWR of the F-150.

But that's only for those very few very special F-150s with the HD Payload pkg. About 90% of all 2013 F-150s have GVWR of 7,100 or 7,200 pounds, and they definitely cannot tow an 8,000 pound 5er without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. A few F-150s with the Max Tow Pkg but not the HD Payload pkg have a GVWR of 7,700 pounds. Those can tow a 5er with a max weight around 6,000 pounds, maybe even 6,500 pounds, but not 8,000 pounds without being overloaded.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:27 PM   #33
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I have a 05 F150 Fx4 with a 5.4L. I have added an edge programmer that stays in extreme mode and 4" lift with 33's. The bed is 5.5ft and I was told there is no hitch for this truck. I put a Reese 16k slider in with a universal kit and added a 7 pin replicator plug in the bed.

The trailer was a 2001 Jayco with a small slide; I added a 19 gallon fuel cell in the front between the landing gear and plumed the filler neck into the propane compartment. Then added 3 feet of bumper to rear the steel alone weighed around 3-400 lbs because is was all 2x6 11g with 3/16 tread plate and 3/16 expanded metal with 22g sides on the generator box. I then put a Honda 4k in the box. I also ran 2x3 angle under the frame from the rear of the shackle hangers to the end of the bumper to re-enforce the frame and the butt joint.

The trailer weighed around 8-8500k fully loaded, I only had a problem when I tried to make a U-Turn and would slide the hitch back to that but that was very rare.
I loved the looks I got from guys in the Big dodge’s and super duties when I was running 70-75 down the highway and still getting 11-12 mpg and it handled just fine.










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Old 04-24-2013, 12:38 AM   #34
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Sad thing is someone's going to see these guys with their overloaded trucks pulling 5'ers and think they can do it too. No one is getting 11-12mpg running 70-75 mph with a 5.4 with 33's. Just saying.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:11 AM   #35
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Sad thing is someone's going to see these guys with their overloaded trucks pulling 5'ers and think they can do it too. No one is getting 11-12mpg running 70-75 mph with a 5.4 with 33's. Just saying.
I average 17 without the trailer, and with the trailer 11-12. I have tried the EDGE in tow mode and got under 9. My truck has the tow package from ford on it. Plus the trailer is 1/2 ton towable. I have done tons of things to my truck that the normal F150 owner probably does not.

Oil changed every 4k
Trans filter changed at 15k and full fluid at 30k
Transfer case is at 15k as well
Front and Rear dif's changed with full synthetic at 30k

I have after market coil packs and pace setter shorties as well and did the plugs on it at 80k and again at 130k.
I run BFG AT/KO E= rated tires at 70 psi.

Before I did some of these changes I did not get the 11-12 I got 8-10.

Now when I did make a trip from Tucson AZ to Ft Worth Tx with a 28ft car hauler that was pushing 12k, I put air bags on and ran them at 90 psi to level the truck and tan under 70. I only got 8-10 on the flat grounds and yes it did have issues in the hills but I was able to pull them just fine.
I was wishing I had never got rid my 03 F 350 FX4 with 7.3L in it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:14 AM   #36
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Too Funny! I find it funny that someone knows more about my truck than I do, being as though I just invested over 45 g in it... Your math calculations are all wrong. Try calculating a 2013 Ford F150 4x4 Eco Boost Super Crew with the HD package then post the correct numbers before you get all bent out of shape. In as far a you getting on me about my little V6 is funny too when I served 2 tours in Iraq before retiring. Recalculate your numbers then repost your research and ill tell you if you are correct sir. Until then, happy trails!
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #37
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I loved the looks I got from guys in the Big dodge’s and super duties when I was running 70-75 down the highway and still getting 11-12 mpg and it handled just fine.
Like most folks with overloaded tow vehicles, you don't give us the GVWR of your tow vehicle and the front and rear axle weights of the wet and loaded tow vehicle. So how much overloaded were you when towing at 75 MPH?
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:49 AM   #38
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Try calculating a 2013 Ford F150 4x4 Eco Boost Super Crew with the HD package then post the correct numbers before you get all bent out of shape.
My post was based on your statement that: "The Eco boost V6 owners manual says I can haul a total weight of 9,300 pounds." You also posted: "I just traded in a 2011 Ford F150 5.0 V8 for a 2013 Ford F150 3.55 eco boost with the towing package."

So assuming those statements are correct, and that 3.55 means 3.55 axle ratio, then you do NOT have the HD payload package or the Max Tow Pkg. So your GVWR is 7,200 pounds, not the 8,200 pounds of the HD Payload Package.

The "tow rating" of the HD payload pkg and/or the Max Tow Pkg in a 2013 EcoBoost is over 11,000 pounds, not the 9,300 pounds you posted. And the HD Payload package is available only with the 3.73 limited slip rear axle, not a 3.55 ratio. The Max Tow Pkg is available only with 3.73 LS or e-locker axle, not 3.55.

Quote:
In as far a you getting on me about my little V6 is funny too when I served 2 tours in Iraq before retiring.
It wasn't me that you're fussing at. The EcoBoost drivetrain with 3.55 axle ratio has plenty of power and torque to tow a trailer that weighs 9,300 pounds. The proplem is not the engine, it's the payload capacity. The F-150 without the HD Payload pkg does not have enough payload capacity to haul the hitch weight of that trailer plus normal payload of driver, passenger(s), tools, ect. without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

Quote:
Recalculate your numbers then repost your research and ill tell you if you are correct sir.
My numbers are correct if your 2013 F-150 has the 3.55 axle and 9,300 pounds tow rating you posted. If your truck really does have the HD Payload package you call the HD package, then I need to recalculate.

But you can clear up the misunderstanding if you post the GVWR of your truck (from the door sticker, not some other source), plus the weight on the front and rear axles of the wet and loaded truck towing a wet and loaded RV trailer when sitting on a CAT scale in the middle of a towing trip.

You're not the only veteran around. I have 30 years total active and reserve service, but I got out long before the Iraq thing. I was active duty from July 1961 until April 1973, throughout the little thing called the Vietnam war. But I don't know what that has to do with towing knowledge.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #39
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Like most folks with overloaded tow vehicles, you don't give us the GVWR of your tow vehicle and the front and rear axle weights of the wet and loaded tow vehicle. So how much overloaded were you when towing at 75 MPH?
If I go by the GVWR then yes I may have been over but I don't know the GVWR with the tow package. The GVWR is 7200 so I was over by about 1-1500K but when the trailer was hitched up there rear did not squat but about 1/2 inch with no air my bags. I ran 6 lbs in the bag just so there is air in them. It helped with the ride quality as well but pulled fine.
I have since sold the unit though and went to a Class A.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:10 PM   #40
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If I go by the GVWR then yes I may have been over but I don't know the GVWR with the tow package. The GVWR is 7200 so I was over by about 1-1500K.....
For the benefit of the newbies, here is what Ford says about "going by the GVWR" in regard to towing applications:

Quote:

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:39 PM   #41
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Keep in mind that every set up is different. You talk about pin weight and payload and that is very important. Look at the specks for your truck not just your model of truck. The pin weight in the adds are a estimate each trailer is different. I have a friend that when loads for a trip his Pin weight gets lighter.

The reason I did not buy a 5er was not because it was overweight for my 150. But that I would have given ip headroom and outher factors. It would have been within the limits of my truck. I myself did not feel that comfortable walking the line.

Notice most dealerships will tell you it will tow it and give you the LGVW and say your fine. If they sold trucks also they would sell you a packaged deal.

I Finley did get a 5er with a bigger truck,



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Old 04-25-2013, 05:42 AM   #42
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Well Sir,

I find it amusing that you can tell me what I have and don't have in my Larant FordvF150 that DOES have the tow package but I can assure you that it does and the primary reason for UPGRADING to a newer and much more productive truck in terms of towing my Jayco.

In addition, having served in Iraq has plenty to do with with the safe operation of my rig for several reasons: I drove TT's in a transportation unit that not only supported the war but also support driving cross country on various tenures which supports my statement in terms of safe operation of over 3 million miles. I served from 1977-2003 with a break from 1980-1985 to serve in the US Merchant Marines(SIU) & ( Military Sealift Command).


I just read on a FORD spec PDF that my truck can safely haul up to 11,300 pounds sir that's why I bought it and traded in the 2011. Try Googling it like I did and there you will see the specs.


You seem knowledgable but for you to tell me what I do and don't have sorta rubs me the wrong way when the reason for the upgrade was specifically for the TOW PACKAGE. I had to have trailer brake controller added to my 2011 as well as the wiring for the trailer. The new truck already has both installed in addition to another pin box for a different type trailer.

Besides, do you realize how many times I have been OVERWEIGHT driving a govt vehicle on US Highways and SAFELY operated the truck KNOWING I was overweight? So in your past post in regards to ford not suggesting that my truck is safe and I'm not operating under safe conditions truly is bogus. They don't care and under certain conditions neither do I. If every p/u truck with a 5er were regulated to pull in the scales and get weighed; many of us would be ticketed and put out of service.

I'm not here to debate, I did plenty of that in undergrad and grad school but before you tell me what and what my truck has you have to just wait until I post the numbers you requested on the door of my truck and or get a truck scale readout from a Cat Scale.

I did upload a pic of the trailer and truck. Not sure if you can take a peek

Until then; Happy Camping & Happy trails!
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