RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-28-2019, 09:12 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 409
We can't find a unit we like better than our AF so we've spent the dollars to make it what we want. We went with performance a couple of years ago and couldn't be more impressed. I've only used the braking capacity twice. Once to test and once because I needed to. As a rule, I'm of the opinion that if you need to use your brakes you screwed up and I try to drive way ahead of my truck. Unfortunately some of the other drivers don't drive that way and the brakes become a life saver.

One tip if do the disc conversion, buy child proof latches for all you forward facing doors. If you don't and you have a full lockup emergency stop you will have a yard sale inside your camper.

As to why disc brakes are not standard OEM--They cost more and they don't have to. Pure marketing and economics. Combined with the lack of customer demand as an option.
__________________

__________________
2016 Arctic Fox 27-5L
2018 GMC 3500 Duramax
MtCamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-28-2019, 10:08 AM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Anywhere in the USA
Posts: 33
My thought process on doing the disc upgrade was the fact that when towing the 17,000 pound trailer all I could think of was the constant pucker factor when towing. If you tow for an extended amount of miles it's worth the expense. Now it doesn't matter what kind of terrain I'm towing in, I don't worry about stopping.
__________________

gordofuchs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 10:24 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
consolenut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theunz View Post
While the brakes on most newer trucks are strong enough to handle the trucks rated payload or even light to moderate trailer loads, they are not designed to handle the weight of a hevay trailer. That is why trailers over a specific weight are required to have brakes. Do not rely on your truck to stop your trailer!
Of course the truck does its share of braking. If the axle weights are correct the truck should be capable of stopping its rated weighted. If the truck is overloaded on the rear or front axle weight ratings it will strain or work harder. In the case of an overload some would be relying more so on trailer brakes. Thus relying on disk brakes to take on more then there designed. Are disk better some say so. But if your legal and within your weight ratings it shouldnt matter.

If weight ratings are adhered to via the scale house. And brakes are not sufficient then something of a mechanical nature needs addressed. Brake adjustment on the trailer. Or perhaps better pads on the truck.

My truck will stop my rig on its own. No trailer brakes needed. Already tested that. 12k of truck and 4 piston calipers all 4 wheels + the allison automatic down shifting as agresssive as it does. Stopping not an issue. I take into account brake controller failure or possibility of a blown fuse. Or the inevitable panic stop which trailer brakes are useless.

They say the Trailer Saver TSLB translates forward push from the trailer to downward pressure on the drive axles to help maintain traction. so whether thay helps not sure.
__________________
08 GMC C-4500 w/Custom bed. 8.1L
45ft 2007 Teton Reliance Experience XT-4
TSLB Trailer Saver w/ 3rd airbag
consolenut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 10:44 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
rarebear.nm's Avatar


 
Excel Owners Club
Winnebago Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 3,152
If drum brakes are good, why did all auto makers switch to disk decades ago?

I agree your truck should be handle the trailer load and you must stay within legal weight limits. I prefer the trailer to brake to help keep it in alignment. Back in the day of drum brakes on cars I remember plenty of concerns when they were wet or on long mountain downgrades. Safety is first IMO and I'll stick with disk brakes on heavy trailers. On lighter trailers, drum brakes are OK.
__________________
Fred & Denise (RVM157) New Mexico
2007 Excel Classic 30RSO & 2015 Mini Winnie 22R
2007 RAM 3500, Diesel, 6Spd Auto, SWD, 4x4, CC & LB
rarebear.nm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 10:53 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,342
Every 5th wheel on the road should have self-adjusting brakes but few, if any, do. To save a couple of bucks, the people who build our trailers install manually adjusting brakes. Our brakes need adjusting all the time. Trailer builders are more concerned with $$$ than our safety.
V3600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 11:31 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
KZ RV Club
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theunz View Post
I can't believe the cavalier attitude some people, and manufacturers, take towards brakes. Brakes are the most important safety system on your vechicle. Taking even an inch further to stop than you have room for can cause a lengthy delay in your trip. A foot can ruin your day, and several feet can end your trip and possibly your life. How many times have you had to slam on your brakes (without towing a trailer) and stopped just a few feet shy of rear ending someone? What do you think would of happened with your ineffectively braked trailer in tow? We have the technology for better braking and the cost differential is fairly insignificant, so why don't we require trailer manufactors to supply their trailers with sufficient brakes. Right now they are getting away with the absolute minimum which is far from adequate!


I guess this is my key point. With so many people switching to disk itís apparent the manufacturers are going cheap on brakes a key safety point. I guess since new consumers donít see them and no manufacturer is marketing how much safer their trailers are when it comes to stopping (either disk or larger drums) no on cares. Regards Ron
__________________
Regards, Ron
2018 Ford F350 6.7L CC LB SRW w/factory gooseball
2019 KZ Durango Gold 380FLF w/16K Reese Goosebox
baranski37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 12:39 PM   #35
IC2
Senior Member
 
IC2's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,827
How great are electric drum brakes? Let me just make a side trip here. We owned a 1973 Kountry Aire. It had electric drum brakes. Let's jump ahead to the 21st century. we had a 2006 Glendale Titanium - the brakes other then the way the wheels were bolted on the hub, were identical internally to the '73. A further 5er is our 12,000 plus pound 2014 - still the same 12x2 brakes that the 7500 pound 5er had 45 years back.

Now, disc brakes have been installed on the 2014 - and now I can stop well without brake lock up and loss of traction and by using Ford's integrated controller, developed in conjunction wit Tekonsha. The other 2 major truck brands may need an adapter to work right but that's small change and another few minutes of installation time. Disc brakes for a travler may be the best mod you can make for safety. If you don't go far and only a few miles/year, your dollars may be better spent elsewhere
__________________
Dave W along with my DW, Susan and our poodlepups, Callie & Molly,2011 Ford F250 6.7 CCLB, 5er Hitch Option w/B&W Hitch,,Ride Rite air bags, 2014 Montana High Country 343RL (38')w/disc brakes
IC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 12:46 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 20,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by consolenut View Post
Of course the truck does its share of braking. If the axle weights are correct the truck should be capable of stopping its rated weighted. If the truck is overloaded on the rear or front axle weight ratings it will strain or work harder. In the case of an overload some would be relying more so on trailer brakes.

If weight ratings are adhered to via the scale house. And brakes are not sufficient then something of a mechanical nature needs addressed. Brake adjustment on the trailer. Or perhaps better pads on the truck.

.
That's flawed logic. So if a big rig can pull a loaded trailer, it can stop that loaded trailer, without using the trailers brakes ?

That's what causes jackkniife accidents.

Don't think that it can't happen towing a recreation vehicle, it can.
twinboat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 01:07 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
CecilD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2psnapod View Post
Why do you have to stay with your drums?
Space limitations: Torflex axles running alongside a 19" tall frame.
__________________
2004.5 Ram 3500 2WD DRW
2008 Carriage, tows at 10k#
CecilD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 02:06 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
consolenut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
That's flawed logic. So if a big rig can pull a loaded trailer, it can stop that loaded trailer, without using the trailers brakes ?

That's what causes jackkniife accidents.

Don't think that it can't happen towing a recreation vehicle, it can.
no doubt it can jack knife. there is a point in truck and trailer combo where both are needed. my point is going to disk to cover up a improperly size truck problem is no solution. over 100k towing miles not an issue stopping. before going over sized and over loaded ill wait and get proper equip. i upgrade trucks for the next rig not the present.

when i got my current 5ver i tested the stopping ability. if i didnt have enough truck or were overloaded on axle weight. my next stop would have been to get a larger tow rig. not add disc brakes, air bags no band aides. more truck whether it be a sport chassis, FL60, FL112. it would be bigger and better suited to do the job at hand. but i was legal on scales with reguard to axle weights. still legal now so more truck not needed.
__________________
08 GMC C-4500 w/Custom bed. 8.1L
45ft 2007 Teton Reliance Experience XT-4
TSLB Trailer Saver w/ 3rd airbag
consolenut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 02:59 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Theunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by consolenut View Post
no doubt it can jack knife. there is a point in truck and trailer combo where both are needed. my point is going to disk to cover up a improperly size truck problem is no solution. over 100k towing miles not an issue stopping. before going over sized and over loaded ill wait and get proper equip. i upgrade trucks for the next rig not the present.

when i got my current 5ver i tested the stopping ability. if i didnt have enough truck or were overloaded on axle weight. my next stop would have been to get a larger tow rig. not add disc brakes, air bags no band aides. more truck whether it be a sport chassis, FL60, FL112. it would be bigger and better suited to do the job at hand. but i was legal on scales with reguard to axle weights. still legal now so more truck not needed.
Having drive semi's for almost 40 years I think I have a handle on trailer brakes. I drove everything from pups (28') to triples (3 28' pups) to double 53' foot trailers. I can tell you that while the tractors brakes will stop any of them with the trailer brakes disabled, having the trailer brakes makes a huge difference.
An empty pup weighs about 8,000 lbs which is about the weight of a midsize 5th wheel and a fully loaded pup will weigh about 25,000 lbs. A moderately loaded pup will weigh about 17 or 18,000lbs. about the same as a large 5th wheel loaded for full timing would. The braking difference between the 8,000 lb. trailer and the 18,000lb. trailer is noticeable. Keep in mind that this is with air brakes which are far superior to electric brakes. A pup trailer has a valve on the rear which lets the air go from one trailer to another. Some times you would forget to close the valve, thus making the brakes ineffective, and you would notice the lack of braking immediately.
I idea that brakes keep the trailer from jack knifing is in my experience inaccurate. The only times I ever had a trailer try to slide sideways was when the trailer brakes locked up. This could be a disadvantage to disc brakes if you do not have your gain adjusted to your trailers weight. One Company I worked for, Consolidated Freightways, used a drum brake system referred to as wedge brakes due to the way the shoes were activated, which when you were lightly loaded were so prone to locking up that every time you hit the brakes even moderately hard the trailer's brakes would lock up and the trailer would slide to the low side of the road. Since most roads are crowned, it became second nature to check your passenger side mirror every time you hit the brakes hard to see if the trailer was trying to jack knife (it was!).
Some of our drivers resorted to adding a temporary device to the trailer to bleed off some of the air.
I don't care how big your truck is, it WILL stop shorter with brakes and even shorter with better brakes. Anyone who can't see that is just pulling the wool over their own eyes!
__________________
2015 Montana 3100rl Legacy ---- 2005 F250 6.0
AirLift bags & Bilstein's, tows like charm! Updated to 2017 Chevy 3500 SRW Duramax, tows good too!
Theunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 06:51 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ridge Spring, SC
Posts: 52
I have a 13k pound 5th wheel. It has 7k lb axles with Dexter never adjust brakes. I have 15k miles or so on it. It will lock up the brakes when I manually active them. My gain it set on 7.5. it stops great. With your set up it should stop no problem. I have 10.5k lbs on my axles and 2500 lbs on my hitch. You need to check your electrical including grounds and your brake adjustment. One of those must be out of spec.
__________________
Dieselguy4
2017 F350 CC 4x4 daully 6.7 diesel /2015 Sierra 375RKS
ETCM(SW) ret
Dieselguy4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2019, 07:50 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
consolenut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theunz View Post
Having drive semi's for almost 40 years I think I have a handle on trailer brakes. I drove everything from pups (28') to triples (3 28' pups) to double 53' foot trailers. I can tell you that while the tractors brakes will stop any of them with the trailer brakes disabled, having the trailer brakes makes a huge difference.
An empty pup weighs about 8,000 lbs which is about the weight of a midsize 5th wheel and a fully loaded pup will weigh about 25,000 lbs. A moderately loaded pup will weigh about 17 or 18,000lbs. about the same as a large 5th wheel loaded for full timing would. The braking difference between the 8,000 lb. trailer and the 18,000lb. trailer is noticeable. Keep in mind that this is with air brakes which are far superior to electric brakes. A pup trailer has a valve on the rear which lets the air go from one trailer to another. Some times you would forget to close the valve, thus making the brakes ineffective, and you would notice the lack of braking immediately.
I idea that brakes keep the trailer from jack knifing is in my experience inaccurate. The only times I ever had a trailer try to slide sideways was when the trailer brakes locked up. This could be a disadvantage to disc brakes if you do not have your gain adjusted to your trailers weight. One Company I worked for, Consolidated Freightways, used a drum brake system referred to as wedge brakes due to the way the shoes were activated, which when you were lightly loaded were so prone to locking up that every time you hit the brakes even moderately hard the trailer's brakes would lock up and the trailer would slide to the low side of the road. Since most roads are crowned, it became second nature to check your passenger side mirror every time you hit the brakes hard to see if the trailer was trying to jack knife (it was!).
Some of our drivers resorted to adding a temporary device to the trailer to bleed off some of the air.
I don't care how big your truck is, it WILL stop shorter with brakes and even shorter with better brakes. Anyone who can't see that is just pulling the wool over their own eyes!
Yes having brakes is always a good thing. Yea they do help. I was saying that adding disk brakes to compensate for an undersized truck is a not so good idea. Trailer brakes can fail. then your dependent on trucks braking. I also mentioned that ive tested my rig without trailer brakes to get an idea of stopping ability. Trailer brakes locking up is a really bad thing. as the trailrr will come around and youll be looking at in your sode window.
__________________
08 GMC C-4500 w/Custom bed. 8.1L
45ft 2007 Teton Reliance Experience XT-4
TSLB Trailer Saver w/ 3rd airbag
consolenut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2019, 04:32 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
ThePowells's Avatar


 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 5,183
We just bought a Grand Design Solitude. Knowing the direction that we were going, I sunk about $1400 in parts into the brakes for the truck. All new OEM rotors, high grade pads, rear bearings and seals, and hoses. The brakes on the 5th are great and got seriously jammed up on a narrow part of I-95 and required a brief lock up, emergency lane change and a "stop in the box". I wonder if the van with the NY plates was hoping that I would be jammed up and the insurance was good. Anyway, between the truck and the 5th my stopping ability is amazing. The IS upgrade with the disc brakes was on the agenda when we decided on the Solitude. If those discs make that big of a difference, we are going to need a new windshield.
__________________

__________________
Kelly and Jerry Powell with Halo (Lethal White Aussie), Nash the Rat Terrorist, and now Reid, the "Brindle we have no idea puppy"
2020 Grand Design Solitude 390RK-R
ThePowells is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brake, brakes



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Downsizing from 35 ft fifth wheel to shorter fifth wheel or trailer campinsharz 5th Wheel Discussion 31 03-02-2018 05:54 PM
insufficient water in potty dredcin Entegra Owner's Forum 7 07-22-2016 09:54 AM
Brakes smoking on a fifth wheel going up hill. jkn1946 5th Wheel Discussion 9 08-22-2015 11:54 PM
1990n Kountry Aire fifth wheel brakes wojo83 Newmar Owner's Forum 1 02-01-2012 12:18 PM
Insufficient Heater air flow to back of coach norlfran Class A Motorhome Discussions 16 11-08-2011 06:33 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×