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Old 12-02-2019, 05:37 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by rv for ever View Post
Gentlemen I would like to join this conversation as well. I am experiencing the very same issue with my fifth wheel. After installing all backing plates and shoes ( combination together ) and have the same issue. I did take it to a shop before hitting the road for our 2019 summer travel. I had the shop check all the connections voltage adjustment and all came back up to per the book. Confirming that I hadn't missed anything.

The results are as this other writer experienced. Poor brakes. If I didn't have a truck with the Dura Max and Allision transmission I wouldn't have made the trip.

A side note, I left this year with less weight than any other year.

A change in brake shoe compound could cause that problem.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:17 PM   #58
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HTH--you asked for more information, Silverado 2500 4x4 SRW. Duramax with the Allision transmission. Factory controller. My wagon is a Travel Supreme/River Canyon with Dexter 6000# axels and I dressed the drums with emory. I didn't remember to seat the shoes. A senior moment!
My thanks to all lending ideas. Motor Homes, Bus Conversion, and now a fifth wheel 36 foot. All 50 States nearly twice
Florida to Alaska 2009. left that fifth wheel in Kansas on the way home, turned over by tornado. We were in it. Jerry
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:29 PM   #59
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Wingnut, my wife is working a 3 week job at Samaritan's purse and took the truck from 3-10, but I just remembered I could use breakaway.



I lifted right side with level up jacks and right wheels spin. I then pulled break away and one wheel was tight the other still spins with some friction. I did the the same on left side and both tires will turn with hand force. I guess that shows that at minimum I need to pull hubs and see what is going on with brakes. Im a former electrician 20+ years ago. What amperage should magnets pull? It appears that just two wires run to each side so I assume they are wired parallel. If I buy new magnets should I still verify aperarage to each magnet?

Will it make a key difference to have drums turned? Iím familiar with local shops like Autozone doing disks. Who turns drums?
Regards,

Ron

PS: really would like to just switch to disk, but not sure I can afford at the moment.
Ron, AFAIK, most any of the national shops will turn drums; just call around and check. Check prices, too. Another thing I've read about people doing is to run =separate= wires to each wheel, so that you don't lose =all= braking if only one brake goes down. Separate ground wires, too. All enclosed in conduit.

Lyle
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:51 PM   #60
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When upgrading to disc pay attention to the data.

On the second page of this PDF under Disc Brake Performance the braking force with a 1,600psi pump is show.

https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...rsn=52da1548_4


Try and find any data on kits from any manufacture that use calipers copied from a Chev car or Sprinter van.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:33 PM   #61
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When upgrading to disc pay attention to the data.

On the second page of this PDF under Disc Brake Performance the braking force with a 1,600psi pump is show.

https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...rsn=52da1548_4


Try and find any data on kits from any manufacture that use calipers copied from a Chev car or Sprinter van.


I sent an email to stop my trailer for a quote. I think I have a friend that can probably help me install. Hopefully not to difficult.
Regards Ron
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:54 PM   #62
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Put me down for Performance Trailer Braking the kit I bought had everything including the screws minus brake fluid and grease. No more adjusting brakes or pulling drums to ck the seals. Can stop in half the distance. Night and day difference well worth the expense. They also will send someone out to install them if need be.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:10 PM   #63
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At this point in discussion about poor drum brake performance many have said they switched to disc brake systems. If and when someone switches, how are the disc brakes applied, do the existing drum brake controllers operate the disc brakes.

CLIFFORD
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:39 PM   #64
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At this point in discussion about poor drum brake performance many have said they switched to disc brake systems. If and when someone switches, how are the disc brakes applied, do the existing drum brake controllers operate the disc brakes.

CLIFFORD
There are three separate items (my definition) that a disc mod requires:

- Hub/caliper assembly
-Brake lines - either Kodiak 'rubber' or a DIY steel lines
- Actuator and what you are asking about.

The actuator, for all intents, is connected to the tow vehicles trailer brake system. It's a high pressure pump that comes on in miliseconds andsupplies brake fluid to the calipers. It's generally mounted in the front compartment of the trailer. There are three major brands, Carlisle Hydrastar which I have and am happy with, Titan and Dexter (which is the most expensive).

Kodiak uses a modified mid size 1990s well proven GM design single piston caliper on slide pins which I prefer over the Dexter 4 piston fixed design which, while a great design on race cars, can be finicy to set up to the rotors as I found with the similar design Wilwood calipers on my street rod. Additionally, Kodiak pads are standard GM pads found at any parts store on a Sunday afternoon, Dexter ....??

One thing that has caused others some pain are the OEM caliper bracket bolts. They are too short. I've changed mine to an ARP bolt which is quite a bit stronger then the usual Gr 8 bolts supplied by some of the various suppliers. Also opt for a name brand set of bearings. Most of the 'kits' have unknown quality bearings. Mine are Timkens but others are as good (SKF/Fafnir/National/ Bower, etc)

You just need to do your homework - and buy whst works for your needs. A bundler can save you bucks
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:46 AM   #65
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IC2 , thank you for taking the time and explaining in detail what the conversion takes. I was wondering how the electrical drum system gets converted to fluid operated calipers, the high pressure pump,,,got it . Thanks

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Old 12-05-2019, 08:34 AM   #66
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I lost all faith in Dexter electric brakes after a massive failure in one of our brakes last summer. I define massive failure as having all the brake parts fall to the ground when the drum is removed. IMO Dexterís quality control has a lot to be desired. I say this because when I inspected the remaining brakes, they all had varying amounts of play in the actuator arm for the magnet. I canít say for sure, but I suspect the actuator arm may have broken off the pivot point on the wheel that failed. In any case, for peace of mind I opted to switch to disc brakes.
Based on reviews I opted to go with Performance Trailer Braking for our disc brakes. They ended up contacting Dexter to make sure we had the correct brakes for our 5er. I was very satisfied with PTB.
After going back and forth I opted to have them installed. PTB uses independent contractors to do this. A very efficient and knowledgeable husband/wife team from Wisconsin (Thanks Josh and Heather!) installed ours. FWIW, they also do shocks. Running the hydraulic lines took by far the most time.
This was one of those jobs that I could have done myself, but in the end I have to admit it was really nice to have it done in a day.
If youíre thinking of doing it yourself keep in mind youíll need lots of blocking as well as some heavy duty jacks.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:43 PM   #67
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It may just be me, but I feel trailer manufacturers are using undersized brakes.
Thanks to NHTSA allowing RVIA (arm twisting) input..... rv trailer mfg are allowed to use undersized axles such as tandem 7k axles for a 16k gvwr trailers.
This happened in '05 era when NHTSA decided to make rules for rv trailers axle/tires and wheel regulations.

I always found it odd rv trailer mfg are allowed to do this but a tandem axle flatdeck trailer with 7k axles = can have a 14k gvwr.

Brakes are a function of the vehicle gawrs...not gvwr. In other words a triaxle axle trailer with 7k axles = 21k lb of braking performance.

I've put over a dozen new and used non rv trailers in commercial service with the same 6k/7k/8k/10k/11k Dexter or Rockwell American axles. The first thing I had done or did myself time permitting was eliminate all clam shell or crimp type wire connectors and go with solder connections. Then did a amp check at each wheel. Volts check is nice to know but just one strand of the wire bundle can give a 12v reading. Its all about amps at the brake drum.

Never had any issues with trailer drum brakes when set up this way.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:07 AM   #68
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Thanks to NHTSA allowing RVIA (arm twisting) input..... rv trailer mfg are allowed to use undersized axles such as tandem 7k axles for a 16k gvwr trailers.
This happened in '05 era when NHTSA decided to make rules for rv trailers axle/tires and wheel regulations.

I always found it odd rv trailer mfg are allowed to do this but a tandem axle flatdeck trailer with 7k axles = can have a 14k gvwr.

Brakes are a function of the vehicle gawrs...not gvwr. In other words a triaxle axle trailer with 7k axles = 21k lb of braking performance.

I've put over a dozen new and used non rv trailers in commercial service with the same 6k/7k/8k/10k/11k Dexter or Rockwell American axles. The first thing I had done or did myself time permitting was eliminate all clam shell or crimp type wire connectors and go with solder connections. Then did a amp check at each wheel. Volts check is nice to know but just one strand of the wire bundle can give a 12v reading. Its all about amps at the brake drum.

Never had any issues with trailer drum brakes when set up this way.
I think what some forget is that the tow vehicle carries some of the weight, especially on 5th wheel and gooseneck hitches.

My 5th has a 14 400lb GVWR and 2 6000 lb axles. Take 20% or so of the 14400lb and guess what's carrying it.

Travel trailer (conventional tow) will likely be 10 to 12% pin weight on average.

Of course big business will get away with the minimum they need. It is no different than truck manufacturers who say they have 40 000 lb towing capacity with a 1 ton passenger vehicle. Would I feel safe trying that, no!
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:02 PM   #69
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Yosemite 77 I had a the exact thing happen on our brand new Raptor toy hauler. Funny because we were in Yosemite when I had to remove the brake drum and pour out all the pieces so we could continue on vacation. When we got back they replaced everything on the front axle however on the next trip the brakes on the 2nd axle came apart besides the fact that they never did work very well I also went with performance Braking. However I also went up to the 8000# axles at the same time.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:05 PM   #70
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Yosemite 77 I had a the exact thing happen on our brand new Raptor toy hauler. Funny because we were in Yosemite when I had to remove the brake drum and pour out all the pieces so we could continue on vacation. When we got back they replaced everything on the front axle however on the next trip the brakes on the 2nd axle came apart besides the fact that they never did work very well I also went with performance Braking. However I also went up to the 8000# axles at the same time.


I guess the last few previous post are my point. How do manufacturers get away with these crap brakes. Iíve decided to go disk, but think a new 2019 60K ( I know thatís not the most you can spend on a fifth wheel but think you should get decent braking with any trailer). This should be included in DOT compliance not sure? If so, how many file a complaint vs just convert to disk and move on. I would think if everyone that has brake issues filed a complaint maybe this would get changed??
Regards Ron
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