Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-05-2016, 02:15 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1
Fifth Wheel Suggestions?

We are almost ready to get our first Fifth Wheel but can't decide between a Cougar by Keystone or a Reflection by Grand Design. Both seem great but wondered if anyone has any pros or cons concerning either unit which will help us decide. Thanks in advance!
__________________

__________________
mmarkley is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-05-2016, 05:02 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarkley View Post
We are almost ready to get our first Fifth Wheel but can't decide between a Cougar by Keystone or a Reflection by Grand Design. Both seem great but wondered if anyone has any pros or cons concerning either unit which will help us decide. Thanks in advance!
We have looked at both of those quite a bit over the last year. We think the GD is well above and beyond the Keystone. Se sort of narrowed our looking to the Cougar 327 RES and 333 model and the 337 Reflection. Grand Design has excellent support. Another consideration in our area is the Reflection is a lot cheaper as we have a dealer 3 hours away who really discounts stuff. Our local dealer don't do much for discounts. But even at the same price I'd choose the Reflection.
__________________

__________________
Bob1340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2016, 05:37 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarkley View Post
We are almost ready to get our first Fifth Wheel but can't decide between a Cougar by Keystone or a Reflection by Grand Design. Both seem great but wondered if anyone has any pros or cons concerning either unit which will help us decide. Thanks in advance!
I own a 2015 Keystone. Next RV will be Grand Design. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with my RV - and it's worked fairly well for us, but I'm fairly disgusted with the lack of support and how Keystone treats their customers once the check has been cut:


Take a look at Keystone's responses to consumer complaints to the BBB.

Compare to Grand Designs BBB complaints.

Ignore the number of complaints (Keystone makes a lot more RVs). Decide which business you'd like supporting your new purchase. If you look carefully, you'll find one issue that matches exactly but has two very different outcomes.


Look Keystone makes OK RVs... They use most of the same techniques, materials, and appliances as does Grand Design. They're not radically different. What is radically different?

1) The fact that Grand Design will support buyers directly. Keystone does not. They have a customer service line.. I really don't know why, as they require you to call a dealer. They won't sell you parts.. Maybe they exist to refer you to the nearest dealer? I dunno...

2) A nationwide Grand Design warranty really is nationwide. Conversations with Keystone dealers on the road begin with "did you buy it here?". If you say no - expect a refusal to warranty or at least a multi-month waiting period. Grand Designs will straighten out any dealer that refuses to warranty non-purchase RVs.

3) Grand Designs monitors the feedback on forums and seems to actually care about what consumers post. Keystone is either too big or not actually concerned with consumer feedback. You'll find quite a bit of consumer feedback on Keystone.

4) I've seen identical consumer complaints about issues and Keystone won't fix the issue, GD will.


Grand Design was started by Ex-Keystone execs. They seem to have turned the Keystone support model on it's head. I suspect that this is more about being a private company where they have more flexibility and don't have to hit a public bottom-line number, but that's my guess.

Both RVs are likely to have some new (typical) issues.

Keystone, IMHO, will be less expensive for similar floor plan and features. Even after you spend $1k and throw away the junk factory tires and upgrade the suspension a bit. So, if you're concerned about bottom dollar and don't mind the warranty difference, then you might consider Keystone.


Both Keystone and GD have a 1-year warranty. After that, Keystone offers no coverage. GD offers limited (structural?) coverage for an additional 2 years.
__________________
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2016, 12:07 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
I've been doing the 5th wheel thing for a while and my experience tells me to never buy new again. New trailers are very inviting just being new, but let someone else work out all the bugs. Even high end rigs will have some issues, never mind going with a mid line or MFR with poor standards.

Find something that fits your needs from a quality manufacturer a few years old and save yourself a boxcar load of money and a bunch of headaches.
__________________
h82crash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2016, 08:05 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 306
I like what H82 CRASH said,,,,don't buy new,,,,let somebody else work out the bugs. I think let somebody take the hit on depreciation . RV's are no different than cars, off the lot down the street you've lost 25% and down a bunch each year. Shop wise and you'll be way ahead.

CLIFF
__________________
clifford j is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2016, 08:37 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifford j View Post
I like what H82 CRASH said,,,,don't buy new,,,,let somebody else work out the bugs. I think let somebody take the hit on depreciation . RV's are no different than cars, off the lot down the street you've lost 25% and down a bunch each year. Shop wise and you'll be way ahead.

CLIFF
On the other hand, I only buy new RVs. I've had very very little problems with both the 2016 Forest River vibe Travel trailer and then the 2016 Coachmen Chaparral I traded it in for early this year. We LOVE our Chaparral 360IBL and have had only 1 minor problem that took all of 5minutes to resolve. We had zero issues with our Previous Vibe.

My wife and I personally don't want to buy a used RV because you always wonder how it was kept up, what happened in it (especially the bed), does it have hidden damage and/or ever been a home to bugs, pests, and rodents.

Interestly, many of our friends with $85k+ units have had numerous problems with various components.

The fact is, regardless of brand or class, RVs are assembled by humans very quickly. I'm sure you will even run across the occasional Prevost owner complaint.
__________________
RV: 2016 40' Chaparral 360IBL Fifth Wheel
TV: 2016 Ford F450 Platinum Crew Cab 6.7l 440hp/860tq. 31200lb Max Tow
IronCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2016, 11:13 AM   #7
P5W
Member
 
P5W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 45
From personal experience ..... I traded my 2011 Cougar (High Country 299RKS) for my 2015 Reflection (337RLS). We couldn't possibly be happier. I describe it as going from a short term camp quality trailer to a extended stay quality trailer.

My Grand Design is significantly better in most every way than my Cougar was. I bought both brand new. I didn't have significant issues with my Cougar (or my Reflection) but for us it was just about the quality of the build and living in it. We were always cold and damp in the Cougar during cooler camping trips and could never get it cool during summer trips. Again, it was okay for weekend or maybe even a week of camping but we knew it wouldn't due for us once we retired and planned to travel more extensively. We now have over 20,000 miles and have lived in it for over 6 months with one stretch of over 3 months when we traveled across the US.

Anyway, there's my input on the comparison. Good luck with your decision.

Out with the old:


In with the new:
__________________
Paul "Poppy" Cervone
2015 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2016 GMC Denali 3500HD SRW Duramax/Allison, CC, 4X4
P5W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2016, 02:37 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Viva Las Vegas
Posts: 251
Reflection owner here. We looked at the Cougar as well when we were shopping. The reflection interior seemed a lot more higher end to us. Also, the customer support for Grand Design is unmatched. Both brand new models WILL have their issues. It is all about which company is responsive and backs up their product.

Check out Grand Design Owners facebook and forum for more info.
__________________
2014 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT CC 4x4
Zac808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 01:29 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac808 View Post
Reflection owner here. We looked at the Cougar as well when we were shopping. The reflection interior seemed a lot more higher end to us. Also, the customer support for Grand Design is unmatched. Both brand new models WILL have their issues. It is all about which company is responsive and backs up their product.

Check out Grand Design Owners facebook and forum for more info.
You are right there. We have a Keystone TT and have been looking at 5'ers. No comparison in quality, dealer support, floorplans, etc between the Cougar and Reflection. And in our case the Reflections are much cheaper due to a very discount local dealer. The 337 RLS is about the hands down best 5'er we have looked at and the 367 is a really nice bunkhouse model but too big for my taste. I'm not a bunkhouse guy, but that spare room has a lot of potential.
__________________
Bob1340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 08:34 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Viva Las Vegas
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob1340 View Post
You are right there. We have a Keystone TT and have been looking at 5'ers. No comparison in quality, dealer support, floorplans, etc between the Cougar and Reflection. And in our case the Reflections are much cheaper due to a very discount local dealer. The 337 RLS is about the hands down best 5'er we have looked at and the 367 is a really nice bunkhouse model but too big for my taste. I'm not a bunkhouse guy, but that spare room has a lot of potential.
I think the 337 is their #1 seller. The requirement for us was sliding shower door, face TV when in recliner, 5th wheel, 3/4 ton towable, and affordable. We got lucky and found one used in pristine condition. Had to drive halfway across country to pick it up, but totally worth it. Nothing like learning to pull a fifth wheel in Dallas...lol. GD support is still spot on even though we bought ours used
__________________
2014 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT CC 4x4
Zac808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 12:26 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: FL
Posts: 1,315
We looked at the GD earlier this year, and although we mentally checked them off as perhaps better made, we went with a Montana for two reasons, we didn't like the interior finishes and fabrics and my DW didn't like any of their floorplans. Oh wait, there was a third reason; my DW wanted a Montana, period.
__________________
--2005 F350 Superduty Crewcab, 6.0, 4wd, short bed, 3.73 gears
--2016 Montana 3711FL, 40'
--SOLD 2014 Wildcat 327CK, 38'
ralphie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 11:50 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac808 View Post
I think the 337 is their #1 seller. The requirement for us was sliding shower door, face TV when in recliner, 5th wheel, 3/4 ton towable, and affordable. We got lucky and found one used in pristine condition. Had to drive halfway across country to pick it up, but totally worth it. Nothing like learning to pull a fifth wheel in Dallas...lol. GD support is still spot on even though we bought ours used

Wow, we have been looking far and wide for a used one cheaper than a new one and only found one, a 2014 in AZ with 7K miles on it. The dealer we have been looking at has these things 25%-30% off. A new 337 can be had for about 43-45K.
The tow weight is right on the cusp of our 3/4 ton RAM. I wouldn't want anymore on it for sure. The only really negative thing I have with the Reflections are the little 15" wheels and the low rider stance. If you go with 16" wheels and the slightly larger tires they rub the wheel wells. The 337 weighs about 500 lbs more on one side than the other so this has proven to be a problem. I guess the fix is spacers to get the chassis up a bit. The wife, and I, love the pantry space and the bedroom and bath. And no neck craning to watch tv. I know they are not built as well as an Arctic Fox, but they are worlds above for livability. If I get one I'll re-do the suspension with rubber equalizers shocks better bushings etc, get heavier duty tires and wheels, mount a rack on back, maybe a generator.
__________________
Bob1340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2016, 10:26 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Viva Las Vegas
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob1340 View Post
Wow, we have been looking far and wide for a used one cheaper than a new one and only found one, a 2014 in AZ with 7K miles on it. The dealer we have been looking at has these things 25%-30% off. A new 337 can be had for about 43-45K.
The tow weight is right on the cusp of our 3/4 ton RAM. I wouldn't want anymore on it for sure. The only really negative thing I have with the Reflections are the little 15" wheels and the low rider stance. If you go with 16" wheels and the slightly larger tires they rub the wheel wells. The 337 weighs about 500 lbs more on one side than the other so this has proven to be a problem. I guess the fix is spacers to get the chassis up a bit. The wife, and I, love the pantry space and the bedroom and bath. And no neck craning to watch tv. I know they are not built as well as an Arctic Fox, but they are worlds above for livability. If I get one I'll re-do the suspension with rubber equalizers shocks better bushings etc, get heavier duty tires and wheels, mount a rack on back, maybe a generator.
Check PPLMotorhomes website. They usually have a constant flow of RV's coming in and out of the inventory.

As for the wheel/tire setup, I am running 235/85/16's which is an aftermarket setup. They come with 235/80/16s from the factory. Yes, there has been a few folks that hit there underside, but I only have one mark from the tire and I believe it is from rolling on/off a curb. I have seen a few posts on the GD forum where owners have added opposing lift blocks to compensate for the left/right weight difference.
__________________
2014 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT CC 4x4
Zac808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2016, 01:47 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 51
Same situation....we are looking to be "full-timers" in a year or two and have been researching 5ers, towing ability of my 2015 Silverado 2500 HD CC and man has it been a learning experience!! Overwhelming and confusing at some points. Anyway, we have the multitude of choices narrowed down between the GD Reflections 337RLS or the Bay Hill 320 RS. Both seem to have awesome reviews, quality builds for extended living, great customer service, and very similar specs. Choice will probably come down to who is willing to give us the best deal once the time comes for us to get one.
__________________

__________________
Tom and Melissa Beaco & Skittles (pup-pups)
2018 Grand Design Momentum 376TH
2017 Silverado 3500HD Duramax dually
tsm1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive for 5th wheel merlins Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 27 08-22-2014 03:40 PM
Fifth wheel rental Randy Marlowe 5th Wheel Discussion 8 04-07-2009 07:02 PM
fifth wheel install partsman01 5th Wheel Discussion 7 03-11-2009 01:00 PM
Fifth Wheel Hitch Weight Classification glend Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 5 12-18-2008 04:27 PM
Excel fifth wheel trailers for sale Donfop Excel Owner's Forum 6 07-22-2007 11:41 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.