Fifth Wheel Weight

[jimcumminsw]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Dodge gives a 13k-16k lb tow ratings depending on axle ratios (3.42/3.73/4.10. Manual and auto has the same tow ratings with the same axle ratio.

No, Ram/Dodge has ever since the 6.7L Cummins was introduce have lower the manual transmissions tow ratings due to the engine torque levels. I have the sales and towing guides for Ram/Dodge where these tow ratings are listed, plus look at the Ram Body Builders Guide for towing information. In fact, I do not see 4:10 gear sets being offered with the manual transmission on Ram trucks per their towing guide in 2008/2009.

[memtb]

jimcumminsw, You are correct! I think that the clutch is the reason for lower torque ratings. They are generally shortlived, if used hard. And, most folks that tow heavy loads, quickly replace the clutch to an aftermarket with much higher ratings. The tranny is "plenty stout" ! memtb

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by FastEagle

A pick-up truck's GVWR is it's limiting factor. GAWRs provide load capacity reserves. It's the way they are manufactured.

As long as the GAWR is not exceeded. In the cases of a 5er all of the pin weight is placed on the rear axle unless the fifth wheel is offset.

On our 5er setup there was no difference in the front axle weight when hooked up. You cannot transfer un-used front axle weight to the rear axle.

[FastEagle]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

As long as the GAWR is not exceeded. In the cases of a 5er all of the pin weight is placed on the rear axle unless the fifth wheel is offset.

On our 5er setup there was no difference in the front axle weight when hooked up. You cannot transfer un-used front axle weight to the rear axle.

If your combined axle weights exceed the vehicle's GVWR, it's overweight.

[Cumminsfan]

Your 3500 is the same as my 2500 except for rear springs. My payload is 2176lbs. Guessing yours is around 2600lbs. If you want to stay under the CCC then depending on what and who you put in the truck you are looking at 10,000lbs for a loaded 5th wheel. That gives you a 2000lb pin and 5-600lbs for people and gear in the truck.

If however you decide to ignor the GVWR and go with the RAWR then you can tow heavier. If you have the 3.73 gears then you could look at 5th wheels in the 12-13,000lb range. That gives you a pin weight of 24-2600 lbs. That leaves you with 6-800 lbs for people and gear in the truck.
FYI I tow a 9000lb 5th wheel with a 12 2500 CTD CC LB 4x4 3.73 gears. My pin is 1800lbs. With my wife and gear in the truck I'm at 9800 lbs. 200lbs over the GVWR. Under the RAWR though by 1100lbs. And under the tow and GCVWR,

[JIMNLIN]

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw

No, Ram/Dodge has ever since the 6.7L Cummins was introduce have lower the manual transmissions tow ratings due to the engine torque levels. I have the sales and towing guides for Ram/Dodge where these tow ratings are listed, plus look at the Ram Body Builders Guide for towing information. In fact, I do not see 4:10 gear sets being offered with the manual transmission on Ram trucks per their towing guide in 2008/2009.

What I said was quote; ....*Manual and auto has the same tow ratings with the same axle ratio.*
In fact the M6 has a better tow rating with the 3.42 gears than the A6 with the cab selection I showed below. The OP gave very little info about his truck.

http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2009/docs/dr/mlup3500.pdf

Looking at the '09 Ram body builder guide in the 3500 SRW weights lists shows a QC -140" wheelbase- 4x2 with a ;

M6......3.42.....12300 lb tow rating.
A6......3.42..... 10350 lb tow rating.

M6......3.73..... 14300 lb tow rating
A6.......3.73.....14350 lb tow rating

The 4.10 wasn't offered with the M6

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by FastEagle

If your combined axle weights exceed the vehicle's GVWR, it's overweight.

No question. My point is if you are over on your rear axle weight you are also overweight. Both GAWR and GVWR are weight limits.

My experience with 5er is the pin weight adds no weight to the front axle. I could theoretically in that case add enough weight to the pin to first exceed the GAWR (rear) and shortly thereafter the GVWR.

Regardless of how it is done Ford has a disclaimer about GCWR that states GCWR can be achieved only if GAWR and GVWR are not exceeded.

[Bear101]

Thanks this is the kind of info I need to start with. I figure I will go with air bags just in case. Thanks again!

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

101
Dodge gave your '09 3500 SRW a 6200 rawr. This age trucks rear axle may weigh in the 2900-3000 lb range which leaves around 3200-3300 lb payload in the bed. I would weigh the trucks front and rear axles separately that way you know your actual max weights.
The Dodge 2500/3500 SRW and DRW all use the same AAM 11.5" axle which Dodge rates 9350 rawr on the drw ....so you sure won't hurt it even max loads.
Thats why many Dodge 2500/3500 SRW owners add air bags or other aftermarkets suspension help and 18"-20" tires and wheels to carry more load. Your call there.
If you need help with upgrade mods check out some of the truck camper forums as those folks safely carry 4k-5k lb truck campers with the right mods on these trucks.






Dodge gives a 13k-16k lb tow ratings depending on axle ratios (3.42/3.73/4.10. Manual and auto has the same tow ratings with the same axle ratio.
I would stick with the 13k gross weight trailer if your not going to upgrade the trucks rear suspension/wheels and tires.
Or if you upgrade I would kook at something in the 15k-15.5k gross weight range.
Good hunting....Jim

Thank you gives me a place to start. Most fifth's we are looking at are in the 12K to 13K dry. I had already decided on air bags and this just reaffirms that decision. Truck is a 4 X 4 does that change anything?
Thanks again!

[JIMNLIN]

Truck is a 4 X 4 does that change anything?
Thanks again!

The 4x4 may weigh 50 lbs or so more on the rear axle so basically little to no change. Scaled weights will tell you your trucks story.
Adding bags will level the load.....if needed.

[shelbytexan]

Originally Posted by Bear101

Thanks this is the kind of info I need to start with. I figure I will go with air bags just in case. Thanks again!

Just remember, air-bags do nothing to allow you to carry more pin weight. Air bags are only for leveling your truck and trailer.