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Old 10-10-2018, 09:02 AM   #1
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First time 5er, am I on the right track?

Hey everyone!


So I currently drive a 2015 Silverado 2500 WT Crew Cab and am looking to purchase my first fifth wheel.



The towing capacity for my regular gas engine is 14,000 lbs.


After a lot of research and shopping around, my fiance and I really like the 2019 Forest River Hemisphere GLX286RL. We are buying this to live full time and run our digital agency while traveling the country. The gross weight rating is about 10,600 lbs.



Do you guys think I have enough truck to tow this thing easily? I don't want to be limited if we plan to do a trip through the Rockies. I want to feel safe with the extra 11,000 pounds I'm carrying.



Also, at the dealership they told us this 5er is a 3 and a half season trailer. We're from Pittsburgh and will be using it here and there in cold weather, although we'll most likely chase warm weather most of the time. How difficult would it be to winterize this model? It already has a heated underbelly and decent insulation ratings. What else might I need?



This model also doesn't have auto-leveling jacks, which means we can get it at a lower price than the other trailers we were looking at. How big of a deal is it to manually level the trailer? I've read through various forums where it seems like the opinions are pretty split.



Lastly, what recommendations could you give for a hitch? Definitely going with a slider hitch, but is an auto-slider necessary or should I just go with a manual one? What should I expect to pay for something pretty solid and will last us several years?


I can't wait to get on the road, but I want to make sure I'm doing all my research first. Any help is much appreciated!



Thanks!
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:08 AM   #2
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I owned a 5er in the past with a slider hitch just bought a new 5er with an Anderson hitch I have a short bed truck Anderson hitch is perfect no more slider hitch this hitch is awesome
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:17 AM   #3
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Check Craig's List for a hitch. I found/bought a new Trail-Air pin box (air bag) that was never installed for 60% of the new price. During my search, I saw alot of used fifth wheel hitches for sale on CL.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:05 AM   #4
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Check the sticker/decal on the driver side front door post for that truck's payload/cargo carrying capacity. With a GVWR of approx. 11,000 lbs and 20% of that number as pin weight, you're looking at 2200 lbs right there. Add the weight of your 5ver hitch (approx 175 lbs) and now you are approaching 2400 lbs. Then, add everything that is going in or on the truck....passenger weight, tool box, bed cover, firewood, etc and when you are done adding all that stuff, deduct that number from your listed payload number, the one that is on the door sticker and not some number from an add or brochure. That should give you a rough idea if you have enough truck or not.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:13 AM   #5
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Welcome to the forum. Your plan sounds like a lot of fun. Winterizing is a procedure you use prior to storage and wouldn't apply if full timing. There are precautions and changes you will have to undergo when camping in freezing weather. Stay south and warm sounds like a good strategy.

I have manual landing gear and have no issues with it, use blocks under the tires to level side to side and the landing gear to level front to rear.

I would recommend a sliding hitch with a short bed truck. You may never use it during normal towing but there will be a situation some day when you need to back up at a sharp angle with uneven terrain and you will be glad you had the slider rather than a busted out window. I would consider the Blue Ox Super Ride hitch, it checks a lot of boxes such as comfort, articulation and breaks down for easy removal. I've seen a truck with an Andersen ultimate with a dented cab and an exploded rear window.

Regarding your truck, you will have to check your payload numbers and compare to what you are carrying plus your fifth wheel pin weights. All trucks vary based on options. I wouldn't worry about mountains, there will always be someone going slower than you, use the turnouts and be courteous.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated View Post
Check the sticker/decal on the driver side front door post for that truck's payload/cargo carrying capacity. With a GVWR of approx. 11,000 lbs and 20% of that number as pin weight, you're looking at 2200 lbs right there. Add the weight of your 5ver hitch (approx 175 lbs) and now you are approaching 2400 lbs. Then, add everything that is going in or on the truck....passenger weight, tool box, bed cover, firewood, etc and when you are done adding all that stuff, deduct that number from your listed payload number, the one that is on the door sticker and not some number from an add or brochure. That should give you a rough idea if you have enough truck or not.

So the GVWR is 9500 and the curb weight is 6500 - meaning the payload capacity is 3000lbs. (Although the owners manual says it can handle 3500lbs for the hitch weight)



The pin weight of this trailer is only 1625lbs. Plus the hitch at 175lbs makes 1800lbs. Two passengers plus an english mastiff in the back would be about 450. And then gas/water/tools/etc probably another 2-300 tops.



So I'm thinking we'd be lugging around about 2500lbs for the payload.



Shouldn't be an issue then right?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by CecilD View Post
Welcome to the forum. Your plan sounds like a lot of fun. Winterizing is a procedure you use prior to storage and wouldn't apply if full timing. There are precautions and changes you will have to undergo when camping in freezing weather. Stay south and warm sounds like a good strategy.

I have manual landing gear and have no issues with it, use blocks under the tires to level side to side and the landing gear to level front to rear.

I would recommend a sliding hitch with a short bed truck. You may never use it during normal towing but there will be a situation some day when you need to back up at a sharp angle with uneven terrain and you will be glad you had the slider rather than a busted out window. I would consider the Blue Ox Super Ride hitch, it checks a lot of boxes such as comfort, articulation and breaks down for easy removal. I've seen a truck with an Andersen ultimate with a dented cab and an exploded rear window.

Regarding your truck, you will have to check your payload numbers and compare to what you are carrying plus your fifth wheel pin weights. All trucks vary based on options. I wouldn't worry about mountains, there will always be someone going slower than you, use the turnouts and be courteous.

Thanks! Definitely going with a slider hitch in case I ever need it.



How difficult is it to prep the trailer for cold weather? We'll likely be in PA at least through December before heading south.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:25 AM   #8
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I have a shortbed F250. I use Pullrite Superlite 20k hitch. It only weighs 52 lbs and is a single point attachment to the gooseneck ball, so it is easy to install and remove with single person. Easy to align to funnel looking out the back window too. Light weight gives more payload compared to a heavy slider and with the 5th wheel rounded cap I can turn almost 90 degrees with no issue. Good luck on your full time endeavor! You picked a great floor plan.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:42 AM   #9
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Your 2500 has a 6200# RAWR


The 5vr pin weight of 1625# is based on the DRY weight of trailer (8499#) which is roughly 20%
5vr GVWR 10,600# with 20% WET pin weight----2120#


You will NOT get close to the trucks RAWR with that pin weight


Enjoy your new 5vr.....load it up and go camping




Reference:
My 3500 has 6200# RAWR. I am at RAWR with a 14K 5vr w/3080# pin weight
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:15 PM   #10
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Your 2500 has a 6200# RAWR


The 5vr pin weight of 1625# is based on the DRY weight of trailer (8499#) which is roughly 20%
5vr GVWR 10,600# with 20% WET pin weight----2120#


You will NOT get close to the trucks RAWR with that pin weight


Enjoy your new 5vr.....load it up and go camping




Reference:
My 3500 has 6200# RAWR. I am at RAWR with a 14K 5vr w/3080# pin weight

Thanks! You're right the wet pin weight will be higher.



So the RAWR is more important than the GVWR? I shouldn't be exceeding either of those ratings, but with 6200# as the RAWR I won't even be close.



I just want to make sure I'm not overloading the truck, but it doesn't seem like I will be.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:54 PM   #11
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Thanks! You're right the wet pin weight will be higher.



So the RAWR is more important than the GVWR? I shouldn't be exceeding either of those ratings, but with 6200# as the RAWR I won't even be close.



I just want to make sure I'm not overloading the truck, but it doesn't seem like I will be.

GVWR and the payload which is based on GVWR are MFG ratings for warranty, Class distinction and registration fees.
They are NOT legal binding issues....
Axle and Tire Load Ratings ARE ...DOT jurisdiction.


Stay at/under those ratings and you are legal AND SAFE
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutes View Post
So the GVWR is 9500 and the curb weight is 6500 - meaning the payload capacity is 3000lbs. (Although the owners manual says it can handle 3500lbs for the hitch weight)



The pin weight of this trailer is only 1625lbs. Plus the hitch at 175lbs makes 1800lbs. Two passengers plus an english mastiff in the back would be about 450. And then gas/water/tools/etc probably another 2-300 tops.



So I'm thinking we'd be lugging around about 2500lbs for the payload.



Shouldn't be an issue then right?
Not sure where you came up with the curb weight number, but you need to make sure it's not a number from anywhere else other than the sticker on the door post. That is the ACTUAL PAYLOAD capacity of THAT particular truck when it was built.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:25 PM   #13
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Here is some more info to read. And by the way, I am a firm believer in NOT exceeding ANY of the rated capacities...including and especially the payload......


"There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

.
.
“As a company or fleet, you’re placing your employees in these vehicles. It is very important to company wellbeing and employee safety to make sure the trucks you purchase are designed for their intended purposes, and GVWR and GCWR are specified properly for safe, efficient operation.”

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services 
NTEA"



SAE J2807 States that exceeding the GVWR is a reason to fail
Quote
"5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations

The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR
without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR. Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR."
End Quote
TWR = Trailer Weight Rating



From Fords Towing Guides.
Quote
“5th-Wheel Towing Notes:
This information also applies to models with pickup box delete option (66D). Trailer kingpin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure that the vehicle payload (reduced by option weight) will accommodate trailer kingpin load weight and the weight of passengers and cargo added to the towing vehicle. The addition of trailer kingpin load weight, and the weight of passengers and cargo, must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). These ratings can be found on the vehicle’s Safety Compliance Certification LabeL”


For me, there is just to much evidence like the manufacturers towing guides, the trucks user manual, SAE and now NETA using GVWR to brush it off as just for registration and not a real rating to adhere to.
This statement ^^^^^, is by a member from another forum I'm on and I concur 100%
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:35 PM   #14
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All of the above are 'standards' .....some are COMMERCIAL and some are generic.


One thing that holds true.....NO statues/citations for GVWR.
There are for AXLE/Tire Load Ratings....those are the LEGAL standards



Many states allow registering your truck for higher GVW then the GVWR of truck...just pay the higher associated fee so MFGs GVWR is NOT a legal issue
Payload...that is based on GVWR minus GVW which doesn't mean you can't exceed it (note the registration info)
That leaves you with AXLE/Tire Load Ratings which ARE citable based on DOT regulations.


No one can post a 'statue' that one can be cited for if exceeding MFG GVWR
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