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Old 08-26-2012, 10:55 AM   #57
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Question for Lady Fitz...: When I did the measuring and modifications mentioned in my first post, I disconnected the half-inch hose from my trailer and found that I could fill a one-gallon container in 5 seconds, which equates to 12 gpm. This is with 28 psi water pressure.

One of the tests I ran was to determine gpm with the shower head removed from the shower hose (which would be the least restrictive flow). The one-gallon container filled in 48 seconds, which equates to 1.25 gpm.

The gpm thus dropped from 12 gpm at the source to 1.25 gpm with the least amount of restriction at the termination point. This is with half-inch plumbing throughout the trailer. To me, this seems like too big of a drop.

My question: Is this big of a drop in flow within the norms of what one would expect?

Thanks,

Bruce
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:07 PM   #58
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Thanks for the research - in fact, maybe this thread should be lost in time and space
as ours is still working fine...
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:45 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
Question for Lady Fitz...: When I did the measuring and modifications mentioned in my first post, I disconnected the half-inch hose from my trailer and found that I could fill a one-gallon container in 5 seconds, which equates to 12 gpm. This is with 28 psi water pressure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post

One of the tests I ran was to determine gpm with the shower head removed from the shower hose (which would be the least restrictive flow). The one-gallon container filled in 48 seconds, which equates to 1.25 gpm.

The gpm thus dropped from 12 gpm at the source to 1.25 gpm with the least amount of restriction at the termination point. This is with half-inch plumbing throughout the trailer. To me, this seems like too big of a drop.
My question: Is this big of a drop in flow within the norms of what one would expect?
Thanks,
Bruce


It depends on how you define norm. 1.25 GPM is too slow for a Girard unless, maybe, the incoming water temperature is really low, say 40F. I forget what the minimum flow figure given by Girard is (and I'm too lazy to look it up) but users have found it to be too low for situations where the incoming water is warmer than one would expect, such as summer in a warm climate, especially when the supply pipes aren't buried very deep.

There are a lot of hidden sources of restriction in an RV plumbing system, such as restrictive valves or faucets, water filters, water pressure regulators, the city water inlet check valve, undersized plumbing (1/2" plumbing shouldn't be a problem, especially since the runs are short, as long as the fittings aren't restrictive), etc.

The city water inlet with the built in check valve can be replaced with one that has no check valve and a less restrictive check valve can be installed inline downstream (it might be necessary to use a 3/4" or 1" check valve with reducers to eliminate all flow restriction). A non-Rv pressure reducer, such as a residential unit, will have less flow restriction. Same for water filters; either use a residential kind or even two in parallel. Residential faucets/shower valves may be less restrictive than the kinds installed in RVs. Shower heads should have any fow restrictors removed (even then, some kinds may still be too restrictive). All this should have been done by the RV manufacturers before installing Girards in their RVs.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:54 AM   #60
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Thanks so much, Lady Fitz, for your ideas on eliminating some of the flow restrictions. The check valves might be a good place to start.

Saw your post over in rv.net regarding the new Atwood tankless water heaters. Atwood has come up with some very nice brochures on them. I see that Dyers (as well as others) is taking pre-orders. If this Atwood pans out, it will be hard to resist making the switch to it.

Bruce
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:12 AM   #61
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...Saw your post over in rv.net regarding the new Atwood tankless water heaters. Atwood has come up with some very nice brochures on them. I see that Dyers (as well as others) is taking pre-orders. If this Atwood pans out, it will be hard to resist making the switch to it.

Bruce
Hopefully, it will be a matter of when rather than if the Atwoods pan out.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Rvcamper
All Concerned: Tom Johnson's Camping Center in Marion, NC has had my Camper for 3 weeks now. After an exhaustive and extensive attempt and many conversations with the Girard techs, they have finally come to the conclusion the Girard Tankless System is not a workable system for my camper. They are now installing a 10 gallon quick recovery conventional water heating system. If you are not COMPLETELY satisfied with the operation of the Girard Tankless System, you need to go to your dealer and request a replacement. Fleetwood and other RV manufactures turned down this system for their units because of the erratic temps. Great idea for the RV industry, however this tankless manufacturer has some work to do before it is consumer ready.
Could you let me know make and model of your 10 gallon quick recovery conventional hot water Hester they put in your Wildcat. We were told they are installing a 6 gallon tank. I'd like the bigger tank if it fits. We have a Wildcat 302 RL.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:11 AM   #63
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We have this unit in our 2013 Berkshire coach and have no issues of yet with it. It took some time to keep myself from not turning on the cold water...
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:03 AM   #64
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Nice that it works for you but does not work for many of us. We don't turn on the cold water. If you do "limiting" starts with swings from hot to cold. Can't EVER get the temperature to a comfortable degree because of water pressure, cold water temp being too high, a variety of reasons. Always surprises me to see a post like yours saying it is working fine. Must be something different in the way the RV is made or something. We've really tried to make it work and talked to everyone. Glad it is working for you but for many of us, it does NOT work.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:10 AM   #65
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Sorry it's not working for you/

Maybe it's that it works for many, but they don't post on this forum

good luck with your next version...

ejm - Our friends are coming over this weekend to look at the berkshire's down at http://www.mhsrv.com/ by us....

They are nice looking coaches !
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:37 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Mplawrence

Could you let me know make and model of your 10 gallon quick recovery conventional hot water Hester they put in your Wildcat. We were told they are installing a 6 gallon tank. I'd like the bigger tank if it fits. We have a Wildcat 302 RL.
Mplawrence
The water heater is a Suburban. Not sure of the model number. It is still in shop for cosmetic repair. We are suppose to pick up on 9/7. Will let you know model number then if it is not too late for you. Perfect fit except lines coming thru the floor of the storage area. The original hole was repaired very professionally and new carpet installed in the storage area as well. Tom Johnson's Camping Center took this project on without a commitment from Forest River or Girard to reimburse the cost. However, mine was not the first replacement they have done. Also, six more were in the service center for same issue. They were replacing all. Stay with your dealer. Keep insisting.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:26 AM   #67
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For those of you thinking of replacing your tankless water heaters with a standard tank model, if you really want to stay with a tankless water heater, you should take a look at the Precision Temp RV500

PrecisionTemp.com: For Recreational Vehicles and Boats

It automatically adjusts the temperature of the outgoing hot water by modulating the gas flow to the burners. Output temperature can be adjusted on the circuit board if you want it hotter or colder that the factory preset. Feedback from the LED display tell you GPM plus any error codes if there is a problem. We have been on the road now for a year, from the Texas RGV to South Dakota and Canada, and we have never had any issues with water being too hot or too cold regardless of the outside temperature.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:28 PM   #68
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For those of you thinking of replacing your tankless water heaters with a standard tank model, if you really want to stay with a tankless water heater, you should take a look at the Precision Temp RV500

PrecisionTemp.com: For Recreational Vehicles and Boats

It automatically adjusts the temperature of the outgoing hot water by modulating the gas flow to the burners. Output temperature can be adjusted on the circuit board if you want it hotter or colder that the factory preset. Feedback from the LED display tell you GPM plus any error codes if there is a problem. We have been on the road now for a year, from the Texas RGV to South Dakota and Canada, and we have never had any issues with water being too hot or too cold regardless of the outside temperature.
Keep in mind the RV500 needs the same amount of room as a 10 gl. tank type water heater. Other than that, it should be a great option.

The Atwood tankless water heaters will be another option once they begin to ship. Those will fit in the same sapce as a 6 gl. tank type water heater.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:50 AM   #69
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Keep in mind the RV500 needs the same amount of room as a 10 gl. tank type water heater. Other than that, it should be a great option.

The Atwood tankless water heaters will be another option once they begin to ship. Those will fit in the same sapce as a 6 gl. tank type water heater.
I hate to disagree with you, but the dimensions from the respective web sites indicate otherwise.
RV500: 13.5" Wide x 13.5" Deep x 14.5" High. = 2544 cu in. (2788 for a retrofit)
Atwood 6 gal : 16" wide, 12-1/2" high, and 18-1/2" deep = 3700 cu in.
Atwood 10gal: 16" wide, 15-1/2" high, and 21" deep = 5208 cu in.
Suburban 6 gal: 12-11/16" 12-11/16" 19-3/16" = 3118 cu in
Suburban 10gal: 16-7/32" 16-7/32" 20-1/2" = 5392 cu in.

The RV500 takes up less space that a 6 gallon tank, 20% less than the smaller Suburban 6 gallon model.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #70
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I hate to disagree with you, but the dimensions from the respective web sites indicate otherwise.
RV500: 13.5" Wide x 13.5" Deep x 14.5" High. = 2544 cu in. (2788 for a retrofit)
Atwood 6 gal : 16" wide, 12-1/2" high, and 18-1/2" deep = 3700 cu in.
Atwood 10gal: 16" wide, 15-1/2" high, and 21" deep = 5208 cu in.
Suburban 6 gal: 12-11/16" 12-11/16" 19-3/16" = 3118 cu in
Suburban 10gal: 16-7/32" 16-7/32" 20-1/2" = 5392 cu in.

The RV500 takes up less space that a 6 gallon tank, 20% less than the smaller Suburban 6 gallon model.
Volume doesn't tell the entire story. Height is the killer. Almost all installations in a hole formerly occupied by a 6 gl. tank type water heater require some surgery to get the roughly additional 2 inches needed by the RV500. Not all RVs will have room for that additional 2 inches. Framing, especially aluminum framing, may be in the way. The cabinet space that the water heater occupies may not have enough vertical room to allow for the extra two inches. This is the reason the RV500s are advertised as a direct replacement for only 10 gl. tank type water heaters since not everyone has the skills to do the necessary surgery or even determine if there is room to do so.
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