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06-17-2012, 11:35 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC
Forgive me my cynicism, but I suspect the marketing types may have overriden the engineers on this decision since it appears that Lippert is getting a cut on every one of these Reese Goose Boxes that are sold.
Full article HERE.
Rusty
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Cynicism, lack of trust I understand... I work as a manager for facilities and security.
People that know me would say sarcasm also...
I am not saying I have tried, or would try their product, skeptical, yes....
...but I did buy a 2011 6.7l Ford .... I did wait for job 2 in my defence...
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2017 F350 Lariat Diesel Dually, White, Hitch Kit.
2013 Dutchman Voltage 3200 Epic II 5th wheel.
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06-17-2012, 01:30 PM
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#16
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Moderator Emeritus
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bryan, TX when not traveling.
Posts: 22,948
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And it all goes back to the fact that there are a lot of products on the market today that are dictated by marketing "experts" rather than engineers. The Goose Box falls into the same hole.
Marketing hype will try to change the facts. The basic rules of physics cannot be changed and that is a fact.
A longer lever arm and the same force will produce more torque which means more stress.
Ken
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Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|No Longer Full-Time! - 2023 Cougar 22MLS toted by 2022 F150, 3.5L EcoBoost Tow Max FX4 Lariat Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot, retired mechanical engineer
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06-17-2012, 05:07 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Ken,
I will agree that I am making an assumption that he is referring to total operation and he does not specifically point out angular stress on the pin box, and we do not know the tolerance of "similar".
Rich Pilarski, Bosch senior engineer, reports, “The overall results showed that the Goose Box was very similar in performance to the standard (fifth wheel) pin box.”
Some warranty info: (page 6)
http://reeseprod.com/content/downloa..._Pin_Boxes.pdf
__________________
2017 F350 Lariat Diesel Dually, White, Hitch Kit.
2013 Dutchman Voltage 3200 Epic II 5th wheel.
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06-17-2012, 05:20 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCooke
Rich Pilarski, Bosch senior engineer, reports, “The overall results showed that the Goose Box was very similar in performance to the standard (fifth wheel) pin box.”
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Unless they strain gauged (or gaged) the frame and tested the 5th wheel pinbox and the Reese Goose Box, they have no way to document the change in stresses induced in the frame itself. Otherwise, their comments are merely subjective impressions. Apparently Bosch only tested for "ride":
Quote:
Independent lab tested & proven to provide a better ride than king pin “bolt-on” adapter solutions (Bosch Automotive Proving Grounds).
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Rusty
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06-17-2012, 05:33 PM
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#19
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Moderator Emeritus
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bryan, TX when not traveling.
Posts: 22,948
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Rusty, wonder if they even have the stain gauge equipment or know how to use them.
I have seen more than my fair share of people that claim to be engineers, but based on their performance as "engineers", I am ashamed to share the profession with them.
Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|No Longer Full-Time! - 2023 Cougar 22MLS toted by 2022 F150, 3.5L EcoBoost Tow Max FX4 Lariat Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot, retired mechanical engineer
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06-17-2012, 08:15 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobbymag
Hello all. Just bought our first RV and the whole family is excited. I bought a 5th jayco with a gooseneck adapter. My father hauled it for me so we had to take the adapter off so he could pull it with his 5th wheel hitch. After getting it home, I reassembled the gooseneck to find that it doesn't have a locking pin like the other goosenecks I have pulled. It is made by bulldog and fairly new. Am I missing parts or what? Thanks for any info
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Come on guys the op isn't asking about your opinions on the use a GN adapter which are just that. This engineer trump card thing is driven in the ground ad nauseous. Time to put it to bed as its way overdone on this forum.
I would contact Bulldog and get their input for your particular year model adapter. Looking at Bulldogs web shows they advertise the adapter with a locking devise. Some LD are built in and some are a seperate clamp around system. Check out Bulldogs website.
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06-18-2012, 10:14 PM
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#21
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
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As a CE.i have ran the numbers. I know what the g/n can handle. I was just wondering what I was missing.
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06-18-2012, 11:15 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wherever we are
Posts: 4,288
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Not being an engineer and not having a dog in this fight--I don't think anyone doubts the G/N adapter can handle the stress, it's the frame of the trailer that might have a problem.
I DID try an adapter on my 17k Suites--did all the mounting bolts (grade 8) as told and promptly pulled the pin out of the pin box (weld failed). Adapter was fine, mount was still firmly attached--I just had a king pin that was sitting at about a 45d angle hanging by a partial weld. Now this was an original Lippert pin box and the trailer had been towed several times by conventional hitch and held. Needless to say, the adapter went back to mfg.
Joe
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'16 40QBH Phaeton
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06-20-2012, 04:16 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut60
Not being an engineer and not having a dog in this fight--I don't think anyone doubts the G/N adapter can handle the stress, it's the frame of the trailer that might have a problem.
I DID try an adapter on my 17k Suites--did all the mounting bolts (grade 8) as told and promptly pulled the pin out of the pin box (weld failed). Adapter was fine, mount was still firmly attached--I just had a king pin that was sitting at about a 45d angle hanging by a partial weld. Now this was an original Lippert pin box and the trailer had been towed several times by conventional hitch and held. Needless to say, the adapter went back to mfg.
Joe
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This is the reason the RV manufacturers void warranties, the frames on these trailers are NOT designed to take the stress put on them by the goose neck adapter.
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92' Holiday Rambler 1000
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06-20-2012, 04:41 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 359
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Customer: I'll take that 36' unit over there.
Salesman: Excellent choice sir, would you like that with a standard fifth wheel or the optional gooseneck hitch?
How hard could that be?
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2007 K-Z 35 Toyhauler, 2006 Chev 2500HD Duramax, 2005 H-D Road King Classic, 2007 Mini-Schnauzer "Scooter"
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06-20-2012, 01:09 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut60
Not being an engineer and not having a dog in this fight--I don't think anyone doubts the G/N adapter can handle the stress, it's the frame of the trailer that might have a problem.
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Bingo...that's the bottom line.
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2014 American Eagle 45T
DD 13, 500 HP
Pulling a Honda CRV
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06-20-2012, 06:11 PM
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#26
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Moderator Emeritus
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bryan, TX when not traveling.
Posts: 22,948
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I am tired of trying to explain this concept to folks that want to believe marketing hype. So believe what you want. I do not feel that I wasted 5 years getting an mechanical engineering degree, getting my professional engineer license and 42 more years in the engineering field.
What do you say Rusty?
Ken
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Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|No Longer Full-Time! - 2023 Cougar 22MLS toted by 2022 F150, 3.5L EcoBoost Tow Max FX4 Lariat Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot, retired mechanical engineer
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06-20-2012, 08:58 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shadow Hills,CA 91040
Posts: 3,038
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I have hauled Goose neck stock trailers with heavy loads and never a problem.
I have also worked on RV trailers. Most RV trailer frames that I have seen are minimal at best. It's no wonder they have no faith in their Trailers ability to handle a goose neck adapter.
It's a wonder that the fifth wheel hitch became the favored hitch over the simple and stong goose neck.
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06-21-2012, 12:45 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck 1935
It's a wonder that the fifth wheel hitch became the favored hitch over the simple and stong goose neck.
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What design do over-the-road tractor trailers use? 5th wheel, right? In fact, a 5th wheel RV can be pulled by a Class 8 OTR tractor using its standard 5th wheel hitch - the kingpin diameter is the same.
Rusty
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