HEARTLAND vs. The Rest

[RanCarr]

We will never buy another Heartland RV of any kind. The axels on our 28BRS NT were inadaguate for the weight of the TT and bent, ruining all 4 tires. The axle mfg replaced the axels but we were stuck for the 4 new tires. The axels gave out before 3000 miles were put on the BRS. Heartland felt no responsibility although this is a common problem with the BRS. They can keep their RVs, we'll buy elsewhere when we decide to replace the BRS NT.

The other problems are the constant leaks from the kitchen sink area. My husband finally got that stopped. The cheap poor quality cushions in the dinette flattened out by the 3rd camping trip. HL would not replace them with better quality cushions that could actually be used. The cushions the TTs come with are to look at only, not God forbid, to sit on. The sofa is hard as a rock and the material is so cheap it started to degrade as soon as we started camping. The sofa opens to the most uncomfortable bed on earth. May as well sleep on a paved road.......

[caissiel]

Originally Posted by RanCarr

We will never buy another Heartland RV of any kind. The axels on our 28BRS NT were inadaguate for the weight of the TT and bent, ruining all 4 tires. The axle mfg replaced the axels but we were stuck for the 4 new tires. The axels gave out before 3000 miles were put on the BRS. Heartland felt no responsibility although this is a common problem with the BRS. They can keep their RVs, we'll buy elsewhere when we decide to replace the BRS NT.

The other problems are the constant leaks from the kitchen sink area. My husband finally got that stopped. The cheap poor quality cushions in the dinette flattened out by the 3rd camping trip. HL would not replace them with better quality cushions that could actually be used. The cushions the TTs come with are to look at only, not God forbid, to sit on. The sofa is hard as a rock and the material is so cheap it started to degrade as soon as we started camping. The sofa opens to the most uncomfortable bed on earth. May as well sleep on a paved road.......

You will find you get what you pay for. All TT's are build for vacation and if one expect house qualiry product you surely will not find it in a light travel trailer. I see bend axles everyday traveling, it seam to be the norm and possibly caused by to much load caused by trying to lift the rear of the TV. For every pounds removed from the rear axle there is at least 50% loaded on the axles and trailer frame. And all light trailers are limited on axle and frame capacity.
I do not believe in lite trailers, but they are necessary due to custmers demand it and all manufacture need to respond.

Correction, is it an NT 5th wheel? Then the sway bar theory does no apply.

[TXiceman]

We looked at Heartland years ago and were not impressed. Looked again at a highend Heartland about 2 months back and while it was better than I remembered them from the past, they are still not on my list of we would buy. Thye have lots of pretty trim, but they need more frame under the trailer.

ken

[RanCarr]

Originally Posted by caissiel

You will find you get what you pay for.

Then Heartland should halve the price of the BRS28.

All TT's are build for vacation and if one expect house qualiry product you surely will not find it in a light travel trailer.

Don't insult my intelligence. We didn't expect house quality and this isn't our first TT.

I see bend axles everyday traveling, it seam to be the norm and possibly caused by to much load caused by trying to lift the rear of the TV.

Again, don't insult my intelligence. You bend down to see all the axles in the CGs where you stay? I find that impossible to believe. What about all the destroyed tires? Are all these people hauling their TTs with destroyed tires too? You are aware that bent axles destroy tires aren't you? We haul with an 11 yr old 150 GMC Savannah and carry as LITTLE as possible. HL knew about the problems with axles bending. This was nothing new to them.

For every pounds removed from the rear axle there is at least 50% loaded on the axles and trailer frame. And all light trailers are limited on axle and frame capacity.

We're not newbies. This BRS should have come with axles adequate for the weight of the TT. The repair place had a stack of bent axles from HL RVs, not just the lightweights.

I do not believe in lite trailers, but they are necessary due to custmers demand it and all manufacture need to respond.

Oh PLEASE!!!! Had they installed axles adaquate for the weight of this TT the axles would not have bent, causing a dangerous condition on road by ruining the tires. One tire went flat shortly after we got home.

Correction, is it an NT 5th wheel? Then the sway bar theory does no apply.

This is a TT with swaybars and a WDH. Causing a dangerous condition to save money is unconscionable. HL can keep their RVs since there is no way to know what other corners they cut.

[RanCarr]

Originally Posted by TXiceman

We looked at Heartland years ago and were not impressed. Looked again at a highend Heartland about 2 months back and while it was better than I remembered them from the past, they are still not on my list of we would buy. Thye have lots of pretty trim, but they need more frame under the trailer.

ken

They need to address the axles before someone gets killed on the highway when the destroyed tires give out. To anyone reading this: If you own a HL RV, check the axles and inner threads on your tires. Bent axles are not obvious nor are the missing inner threads down to the core of the tire. You have to get down and really look.

[GlenStMary]

We love our Landmark, although we have found a few things the factory was a bit lax with in their building process. One would think their QC team should catch the items before leaving the plant, but we have chalked those things up to summer help or a growing blase' attitude. We haven't had any major problems and what we have found is no worse than what we see in competitors products. The one area we found that makes Heartland so nice is their customer friendly attitude. We have contacted HL several times to ask about changing things like our dining table, etc and they have always been happy to assist. I'm very satisfied with our choice of RV

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by RanCarr

We will never buy another Heartland RV of any kind. The axels on our 28BRS NT were inadaguate for the weight of the TT and bent, ruining all 4 tires. The axle mfg replaced the axels but we were stuck for the 4 new tires. The axels gave out before 3000 miles were put on the BRS. Heartland felt no responsibility although this is a common problem with the BRS. They can keep their RVs, we'll buy elsewhere when we decide to replace the BRS NT.

The other problems are the constant leaks from the kitchen sink area. My husband finally got that stopped. The cheap poor quality cushions in the dinette flattened out by the 3rd camping trip. HL would not replace them with better quality cushions that could actually be used. The cushions the TTs come with are to look at only, not God forbid, to sit on. The sofa is hard as a rock and the material is so cheap it started to degrade as soon as we started camping. The sofa opens to the most uncomfortable bed on earth. May as well sleep on a paved road.......

The axles aren't totally Heartlands fault. Heartland buys axles from Lippert as does most the industry. Lippert has now bought out Dexter Axles. Lippert has a bad rep on frames and axles. It's not uncommon for an RV manufacturer to pass the buck to the sub that they buy parts from. We also had axle issue's with our NT26LRSS. Once again Lippert axles. Those issues alone are the reason we went with Northwood's and bought a Fox Mountain. Northwood's makes their own frames and uses AlCO axles. They also build them with high CCC so overloading is almost a non issue.

After owning 2 TT's and now a 5'er all from different manufacturers it's pretty evident that they all are far from perfect. And price is really not that much of a gage. Just read other makers forums and you'll see that it doesn't matter if you spend $20,000 or $60,000 they all still have issues. All the furniture is made from the same group of suppliers. I've sat on some really crappy sofas and rockers in 5th wheels with prices well beyond $60,000.

[RanCarr]

Originally Posted by JayC

My question is would that small production company take care of a problem in a five year old trailer? Heartland has always been very innovative and has offered more bang for your buck along with outstanding customer service to their customers.

Where is this "excellent customer service?" When we ran in to the problem of the axles bending and ruining the tires in less than 3000 miles, HL couldn't care less and pushed us off on Lippert who did replace them with much heavier axles. Axles that HL should have installed on the BRS28 to start with. We were stiffed for the cost of 4 new tires. We would NEVER do business with HL again. There are other problems also but this one could have cost someone their life out on the highway.

[RanCarr]

Originally Posted by GlenStMary

The one area we found that makes Heartland so nice is their customer friendly attitude. We have contacted HL several times to ask about changing things like our dining table, etc and they have always been happy to assist. I'm very satisfied with our choice of RV

Gee, that's nice of them. When I asked them about changing 2 of the windows for the jalousie type so we can breath when it rains, I got nowhere even though I offered to pay extra. Buyers can suffocate when it rains for all they care. I guess they never heard of cross ventilation.

[JayC]

I'm not going to engage in a big discussion over Heartland customer service. I know that you've made these same complaints on the HL forum as well as other forums and I believe that your opinions are the exception rather than the rule. There are MANY other HL owners that are delighted with their service.

HL referred you to Lippert, the manufacturer of the axles and they were replaced. Neither Lippert nor Heartland knows how you loaded your trailer, whether you were careful about your driving, avoiding potholes, curbs etc. that would knock the axles out of alignment or how you loaded your trailer.

[Cumminsfan]

I have to agree that Heartland skimped on the axles. But so do a lot of other RV makers. I believe it's up to the customer to look out for themselves when buying. The 28BRS was already low on CCC. I'm guessing you dry sticker weight was around 5300lbs+. With a 6900lb GVW you only have 1600lbs of CCC. After loading up you were probably right at the edge. In all fairness to Heartland the axles 2x-3500lb were sufficient for the TT. But in the real world they didn't take the usage. They should've been 4400lb axles. I have no doubt that had you shopped around you would've found many TT's with 4-4400lb axles in the same weight category as yours. It's part of the learning curve for buying RV's. The RV industry is rampant with poor craftsmanship, bad designs and lack of customer support. Only after experiencing those bad qualities do we then have something to base our future decisions on. You won't buy another Heartland and I'll bet you check the axle ratings on your next one. It's sad that you have to go thru this but it's not uncommon by any means. IMO stay away from Lippert products if possible. There are several RV manufacturers that use very little of Lippert products.

[RanCarr]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

The axles aren't totally Heartlands fault. Heartland buys axles from Lippert as does most the industry.

Then why didn't HL buy the heavier axles Lippert replaced the bent ones with? Why are so many people having a problem with too light an axle on the HL RVs? Don't blame Lippert. They have no control over what rigs HL installs them on.

Lippert has now bought out Dexter Axles. Lippert has a bad rep on frames and axles. It's not uncommon for an RV manufacturer to pass the buck to the sub that they buy parts from. We also had axle issue's with our NT26LRSS. Once again Lippert axles. Those issues alone are the reason we went with Northwood's and bought a Fox Mountain. Northwood's makes their own frames and uses AlCO axles. They also build them with high CCC so overloading is almost a non issue.

The axles they replaced the bent ones with should not have a problem. the tires would pop first.

After owning 2 TT's and now a 5'er all from different manufacturers it's pretty evident that they all are far from perfect. And price is really not that much of a gage. Just read other makers forums and you'll see that it doesn't matter if you spend $20,000 or $60,000 they all still have issues. All the furniture is made from the same group of suppliers. I've sat on some really crappy sofas and rockers in 5th wheels with prices well beyond $60,000.

Disgusting isn't it? And they give us no choice, at least with the TTs. Because of how our slide works we can't replace the piece of crapola sofa for something someone can actually sit on for more than 30 minutes, or even sleep on. I recently looked at the Coleman line of TTs and for similar money they are so much better quality. Had I only known before buying the HL NT......

[TeJay]

I have posted, read, re-read and complained about TT's for the last 3 years. Beauty is skin deep. Something may look nice but with a cheap piece of foam the nice looking cushion will flatten in short order. This is how the TT industry has survived as long as it has. They approach their building from three directions.

Does the unit LOOK GOOD (EYE CANDY)??? Will it last a few thousand miles or years with minimum usage??? We know that after a few years probably 70+% of TT's will be used seldom, or sitting next to the house or barn collecting dust. Those that are used more we will deal with the concerns if they complain very loud and often. This is my opinion based on three units that we pulled.

My real concern is this. I believe that more people are using their TT's longer than before. Today's economy forces some to make vacationing choices closer to home and traveling less out of the country. If that is the case these TT's are getting more usage and we also have more people going full-time. This means that units are getting more usage and therefore the known weak links: wheel bearings, tires, leaf springs, axles, spring bushings are breaking down more and more frequently. Seat cushions are getting flatter faster as well.

On our first TT (Heartland) when we got back from our first 3,000 trip I took the 4 leaf springs off, installed wet-bolts (grease-able bolts) and put in new bushings. The original bushings after 3,000 miles were all bad. For that to happen so soon is absolutely awful and it simply shows the TT's concern for safety and longevity. There is no excuse for that practice. What does that say for the company??? The unit was not overloaded, I did not drive over the speed limit and yet the bushings failed. To put in bronze grease-able bushings instead of nylon bushing would not have increased the cost of the unit more than $20. That was not an option offered to us at the time of ordering or I would have added it.

Shocks were also not an option offered to us so I installed shocks in the fall and it made a world of difference in the ride. The cost to me was about $150. Dah !!! Why not offer it to the buyer????

Why don't the builders make some quality heavier coaches designed for the serious campers and travelers in all of their lines not just the high end units. Why won't they offer better higher quality options like shocks, bigger tires on the smaller units, a choice of axle sizes etc, etc??? I don't think the buyers are complaining loudly enough !!!!

JM2CW
TeJay

[jamvir]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Why don't the builders make some quality heavier coaches designed for the serious campers and travelers in all of their lines not just the high end units. Why won't they offer better higher quality options like shocks, bigger tires on the smaller units, a choice of axle sizes etc, etc??? I don't think the buyers are complaining loudly enough !!!!

JM2CW
TeJay

Buyers can complain by not buying the junk. A lack of research and believing everything the sales person tells them are, IMHO, the two biggest reasons for unhappy campers.

Northwoods Manufacturing (Arctic Fox, Nash and Snow River brands) and Peterson Industries (Excel brand) are two manufacturers that make quality products. They cost a little more than the Elkhart manufacturers - but you generally get what you pay for. I would buy a used 10 year old quality rig before buying a new one from one of the Elkhart gang.

JMHO

JIM