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Old 12-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #1
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Help needed! From total newbie to full timer.

Hello team irv2-

I will be moving to the coldest part of Utah and I will be there for 1-2 years. I am young and I am looking into living up there full-time in a 5th wheel toy hauler. I have looked into the Keystone Raptor.

I need any and all suggestions! Are the Raptors good and reliable for full timers? Also, as mentioned, I will be living in a place where it can be as low as -10 in the winter and 100 in the summer.

Please help and thanks in advance!!
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:55 PM   #2
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Hi and welcome to the forum.

I'll leave the advice on particular units to our toy hauler experts but living in any RV in those temperature extremes will certainly present a challenge... but that can also be said for a stick house.

My only experience there was "living" at the lodge at Snowbird for a couple weeks at a time while I skied.

Best of luck.

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Old 12-28-2012, 09:05 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply! In regard to the extreme cold, would you suggest purchasing the unit from a place that consistently see cold weather? I'm from Texas. Wound getting an "extreme weather package" in Texas do it justice?
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:18 PM   #4
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Again, I'm over my head here when it comes to personal expertise, but I think you're now in exactly the right place to get your questions answered.

Even though I have no direct experience with it, after spending countless hours on this forum reading countless posts, it is my opinion that your research will show you that there are very specific makes and models which are designed for cold weather and our knowledgeable members can help you understand which those are and why they are the best. As far as hot weather... well, I think it'll be easier to stay warm in the winter than cool in the summer in most cases. This is coming from someone who has spent more than a few days in a 40DP in the July Arizona sun.

I don't think where in the country you purchase the rig will make any difference once you're armed with the facts of how they are designed and built.

Best of luck.

Rick
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:06 AM   #5
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Insulation of RV's is one of the various points you can find from mfgr's websites &/or sales literature. Just a guess- I don't thing that toy haulers will offer the best in insulation, but I could be wrong. You'll also want to figure out if the pipes are secluded in a way they won't freeze; you can buy electric tape you run electricity through to keep pipes from freezing, and at a minimum you'll need that on your fresh water hose. You might visit a park in the area and talk to the locals about winter issues.

You'll want a setup where you can have a large propane tank next to the rig that you can fill in the summer when propane is cheap. That'll get you started when temps get low, but you'll probably still need to have it filled in the winter to keep from freezing.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:29 AM   #6
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Hi and

Take a look at the Arctic Fox line.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:17 AM   #7
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Agree on artic fox I have a 2008 silver fox 30U it is a sub zero model love it but not the payments be sitting down when looking at prices mine a bumper pull was just over $50,000 new it was bought for winter on my land in Colorado that said they are quality
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:24 AM   #8
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I wouldn't be confident that I could retain a lot of heat with the raptor when it gets real cold. Our cougar has double pain windows included in the polar package but I wouldn't be so confident as to live in it for months at a time in a sub zero environment.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:17 AM   #9
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I would look into a small place( motel room etc)to rent for the coldest months. Any 5th wheel in the coldest of times is going to take a lot of planning and maintaining.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:12 PM   #10
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Thanks for the insight! I will look into the units mentioned!
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #11
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Doing this in a toy hauler is going to be your problem I think. I do not remember seeing them ever advertise insulation qualities. And are you going to live on BLM land? Or in a RV Park? Obviously a park would be better.

Ugh - 10 below, that will suck. It will actually suck until the temp hits 50.

You may be better off renting an appartment. It might be less expensive in a long run. Also an appartment will have it's water and sewer lines in the ground below the freeze line. A trailer will have those same lines exposed above ground.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post

Ugh - 10 below, that will suck. It will actually suck until the temp hits 50.
Guess that depends on where you are from. Nothing at all wrong with a little cool weather.

I've been in a tent and sleeping bag in the 20s
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:00 PM   #13
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You'll definitely need a "4-seasons" RV. The only 4-seasons toy haulers I've heard about is Desert Fox - made by the same folks that make Artic Fox.

"Full-timer" 4-seasons RVs are available, but not cheap. Artic Fox is probably the most affordable, but certainly not an "economy" priced RV. "Luxury" full-timer 4-seasons RVs such as Mobile Suites are also available, but you need to be wealthy to even kick the tires on one of those.

Squeezing the specs even harder, you said a fifth wheel toy hauler - not a TT. Desert Fox makes a few smaller (and more affordable) TT toy haulers, but I suspect the only fifth wheel toy haulers they make are huge and heavy. The Northwoods website is not helpful in getting the specs on their 5er Desert Foxes. So the next best thing is to find a Northwoods RV dealer and ask them for the specs on the Desert Fox 5ers. Here's one:

Northwood RV Desert Fox Toy Hauler Fifth Wheels | Reviews, Floorplans, Specs, Pictures and Price Quotes

As to living in below-zero weather without freezing up, that's a real challenge. You must insulate the fresh water supply hose with a huge thickness of insulation. And do not try to drain the holding tanks until the ambient temp gets back up above freezing. Keep the thermostat turned up to at least 60 F. And don't run out of propane.

Most propane dealers will set you up with a big propane tank, then keep it filled. Residential propane tanks can be up to 500 gallons, most are 250 gallons, but you probably can get by with 50 gallons or so if the propane dealer comes by and tops you off regularly. Check with your RV park as to how big a tank they will allow your propane company to set near your 5er.

If you buy a 30-foot or bigger Desert Fox, be certain you have enough truck to tow it with without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. A "one ton dually" is probably the minimum. The 30' Desert Fox has a wet and loaded weight of 14,000 pounds, with a hitch weight of around 2,800 pounds. Heavy duty pickups with single rear wheels (SRW)will be overloaded with that much trailer. And the bigger 38' Desert Fox has a wet and loaded weight of 18,000 pounds, with a hitch weight around 3600 pounds. That will overload some duallys - that's why Ford makes the F-450 pickups with GVWR of 14,000 pounds and the F-450 chassis cab trucks with GVWR of 16,000 pounds.

(The 2011-up F-450 pickups can pull the 18k toy hauler, but depending on the weigh of tools and passengers and other stuff you haul in the pickup, the 3600 pounds wet and loaded hitch weight might overload the 14,000 GVWR of the 2013 F-450 pickup. The F-450 chassis cab truck have more GVWR than the pickups, so pay attention when matching trailer to tow vehicle. An F-450 CrewCab chassis cab with a hauler bed is a beautiful towing machine.)
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:21 AM   #14
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you can buy electric tape you run electricity through to keep pipes from freezing, and at a minimum you'll need that on your fresh water hose.
Another option for heated fresh water is the Pirit hose. It builds the heat tape into the hose instead of having to wrap it around the hose and hold them together. According to the FAQ, it is safe for drinking water and RV use.

Tim
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