Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-06-2005, 01:17 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Todd T's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
We used our new trailer this past weekend staying at our family farm about 60 miles from home. We had a good time until it all turned hectic on the second day when my wife had come out looking for her shoes in the early morning's wet grass and started back into the trailer. She got shocked!

My brother went to investigate and it didn't get him. he fiddled around and nothing, so he encouraged her to go on in and that's when it happened again. Only this time it was much worse. She got hit so hard it knocked her to her knees across the steps and continued to shock her until she uttered out a yelp and my brother turned and pulled her from the steps where she had collapsed and was getting electrocuted.

She was very upset afterwards as she'd never been shocked before and the trauma of laying there continuing to get shocked and not able to help herself was overwhelming. The scary part is the kids (18mos, 3yo and 5yo) the night before had mentioned it but we all just shrugged it off and ignored them, thinking they were kidding.

As it turns out the air conditioning unit has a little metal box inside the return air side that houses the "brains" if you will, of the AC unit. This box has the 110V AC feed from the fuse box, 12V DC and the thermostat wires terminating in it. The 110V AC has the usual suspects, the white neutral, the hot wire and ground wire. The ground wire terminates to a tailed wire that is just screwed to the metal housing via an eyelet. Inside this metal unit there is a small printed circuit board that has four little plastic stand-offs and four clips holding it to the metal box. Three of the four clips were broke and allowed the printed board to drop down (the unit hangs upside down when installed) making contact with the N/O side of a relay and the metal box. This N/O side when closed has 110V AC on it! Well, that side of the relay was resting against the metal box and whenever the AC unit would run the shorted out relay would energize the trailer frame (via the ground wire) with 110V AC. This caused anyone who was touching a metal part of the trailer and the ground (earth) at the same time to get electrocuted.

I've fixed it, notified Cherokee and am now wondering if I should take this to the next step.

What do ya think?

I've never sued or been the type, but this is ridiculous. I hate to think of the torture our dog and kids went through until we finally found the problem. And thank GOD it wasn't one of the little ones that got it BAD like my wife did. That could have killed them or done serious damage to their little bodies.
__________________

__________________
06' Summit White Silverado 2500HD, CC, SB, 4WD, LBZ Dura/Alli

Todd T is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-06-2005, 01:17 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
Todd T's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
We used our new trailer this past weekend staying at our family farm about 60 miles from home. We had a good time until it all turned hectic on the second day when my wife had come out looking for her shoes in the early morning's wet grass and started back into the trailer. She got shocked!

My brother went to investigate and it didn't get him. he fiddled around and nothing, so he encouraged her to go on in and that's when it happened again. Only this time it was much worse. She got hit so hard it knocked her to her knees across the steps and continued to shock her until she uttered out a yelp and my brother turned and pulled her from the steps where she had collapsed and was getting electrocuted.

She was very upset afterwards as she'd never been shocked before and the trauma of laying there continuing to get shocked and not able to help herself was overwhelming. The scary part is the kids (18mos, 3yo and 5yo) the night before had mentioned it but we all just shrugged it off and ignored them, thinking they were kidding.

As it turns out the air conditioning unit has a little metal box inside the return air side that houses the "brains" if you will, of the AC unit. This box has the 110V AC feed from the fuse box, 12V DC and the thermostat wires terminating in it. The 110V AC has the usual suspects, the white neutral, the hot wire and ground wire. The ground wire terminates to a tailed wire that is just screwed to the metal housing via an eyelet. Inside this metal unit there is a small printed circuit board that has four little plastic stand-offs and four clips holding it to the metal box. Three of the four clips were broke and allowed the printed board to drop down (the unit hangs upside down when installed) making contact with the N/O side of a relay and the metal box. This N/O side when closed has 110V AC on it! Well, that side of the relay was resting against the metal box and whenever the AC unit would run the shorted out relay would energize the trailer frame (via the ground wire) with 110V AC. This caused anyone who was touching a metal part of the trailer and the ground (earth) at the same time to get electrocuted.

I've fixed it, notified Cherokee and am now wondering if I should take this to the next step.

What do ya think?

I've never sued or been the type, but this is ridiculous. I hate to think of the torture our dog and kids went through until we finally found the problem. And thank GOD it wasn't one of the little ones that got it BAD like my wife did. That could have killed them or done serious damage to their little bodies.
__________________

__________________
06' Summit White Silverado 2500HD, CC, SB, 4WD, LBZ Dura/Alli

Todd T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 03:19 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
FatDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NV
Posts: 2,010
Send a message via MSN to FatDog
Todd
That is a real eye-opener. I am glad to hear that your wife is alright, and i too wonder how much the children had to go through before the problem was discovered.

I wonder why it was so much stronger at some times that the AC was on, and also why the kids who also noticed it weren't also floored. Maybe it was your wife's wet shoes.

The clip that holds the board sounds like a problem. And since your trailer is new, isn't it under warranty? Are you sure you want to fix this problem yourself instead of having the manufacturer work on it? although i guess the manufacturer is the one who made it and you might be more knowledgeable in that field.

I am no expert in legal issues,
I am glad no one was seriously hurt,
and I would be interested in hearing what transpires with the trailer.

Mike
__________________
F350 PSD 4x4 SRW, BanksBrake, FOX res shocks, MagHytec, DP tuner, JohnWood tranny;
ChrisCraft Launch VP8.1 ;
3 hound dogs
FatDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 03:32 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12
This should not have happened,You better check the power line comming into your trailer from the A/C source for proper ground.The short circuit you experienced should have just tripped the circuit breaker.If you have the proper grounded A/C circuit the power should travel back to the A/C ground and not thru the trailer to ground.
Alot of home wired A/C connections are done without proper the continous ground connections.
__________________
hummer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 03:36 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
First you should give the dealer/manufacturer a chance to fix the trailer. Things do happen and luckily no one was injured.

If it continues to happen and it is not properly fixed, then you may need an attorney, but for now, just let them fix the trailer. Let's not get sue-happy right off the bat.

Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 06:32 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Todd T's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
I have notified the manufacturer of the problem. and yes the outlet it was plugged into was properly installed and grounded with the correct size conductor and 6ft ground rod. to take it a step further while trying to fix the problem during our weekend there we took a piece of 10/2 and drove a 3 foot stake in the ground clamped all three conductors to it, watered it with 5 gallons of water and then hard wired two of the conductors to the ground lug of the trailer's ground from the fuse box and the third was tied to the ground for the battery where they each hit the frame (the only source of ground for the trailer). we also stuck the chains down and watered around them. with all this, it would still shock you! so we had to turn the AC unit off for the remainder of our trip.

the thing never tripped a breaker. the ground and neutral are isolated from each other in the trailer's fuse box. the neutral is only common with the neutral of the service power (floating)and the ground is common with the service power ground (which is grounded via a 6ft ground rod at the service panel) and also common with the trailer frame where the trailer wiring is tied off to a lug screwed to the frame.

we'll let the manufacturer(s) sort it out. long story short-her wet feet made an excelent circuit and the path of least resistance. thus the harder shock for her. the kids we made sure had shoes on and placed a piece of wood outside the door to stand on before touching the trailer.

I took things apart once we got home and first found it had about 20 volts between the ground and neutral. I then started removing circuits until i identified the AC wire to be the source of the voltage. next i started disecting the AC unit until i found the source of power to be the ground wire, isolated that by opening the ground wire from the trailer to the AC unit and then on a hunch turned the AC unit on and metered the two ends of the seperated ground and measured 124.6 volts across it. so i took the little metal "brain" box out and found the normally open side of the 110AC relay literally welded to the metal frame of the box.

I couldnt sleep until i knew that trailer was safe to enter. Period! I took pictures of what i found before making the repairs which consisted of replacing the broken clips with new ones and then placing a non-conductive rubber patch on the roof of its little metal housing to prevent this from happening again.
__________________
06' Summit White Silverado 2500HD, CC, SB, 4WD, LBZ Dura/Alli

Todd T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 08:25 PM   #7
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
.....we have seen this in mobile home parks a lot in the past...an ungrounded trailer....some people just walk in and others get the shock of their life.....old people and children and pets get it worse than anyone else.....ground everything when you are home or camping....no exceptions.....geofkaye
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 04:05 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bryan, Texas
Posts: 611
If you tied,quote, {clamped all three conductors to it}, you may have been causing it yourself. You NEVER tie a hot leg to a ground. That's a short that WILL shock you.

IF you were plugged into a properly grounded and properly wired curcuit, and the hot leg touched ground, anywhere, including inside an ac control box, a breaker would have tripped and prevented all of this.
__________________
charliez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 07:56 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12
This problem sounds like a classic open neutral or a poor neutral connection,When the neutral is open or poorley connected the ground wire becomes a current carying conductor.I would suggest disconecting RV the power cord at both ends and do a resistance check then do the same thing for the A/C power supply. The wife made a better ground than the ground wiring did.
I do not claim to be a expert electrician but I did work aviation avionics for over 35 years.
So please get a qualified electrician to sort this out before someone gets hurt.
__________________
hummer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2005, 03:30 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Louisville Kentucky USA
Posts: 48
///////////<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Todd T:
We used our new trailer this past weekend staying at our family farm about 60 miles from home. We had a good time until it all turned hectic on the second day when my wife had come out looking for her shoes in the early morning's wet grass and started back into the trailer. She got shocked!

My brother went to investigate and it didn't get him. he fiddled around and nothing, so he encouraged her to go on in and that's when it happened again. Only this time it was much worse. She got hit so hard it knocked her to her knees across the steps and continued to shock her until she uttered out a yelp and my brother turned and pulled her from the steps where she had collapsed and was getting electrocuted.

She was very upset afterwards as she'd never been shocked before and the trauma of laying there continuing to get shocked and not able to help herself was overwhelming. The scary part is the kids (18mos, 3yo and 5yo) the night before had mentioned it but we all just shrugged it off and ignored them, thinking they were kidding.

As it turns out the air conditioning unit has a little metal box inside the return air side that houses the "brains" if you will, of the AC unit. This box has the 110V AC feed from the fuse box, 12V DC and the thermostat wires terminating in it. The 110V AC has the usual suspects, the white neutral, the hot wire and ground wire. The ground wire terminates to a tailed wire that is just screwed to the metal housing via an eyelet. Inside this metal unit there is a small printed circuit board that has four little plastic stand-offs and four clips holding it to the metal box. Three of the four clips were broke and allowed the printed board to drop down (the unit hangs upside down when installed) making contact with the N/O side of a relay and the metal box. This N/O side when closed has 110V AC on it! Well, that side of the relay was resting against the metal box and whenever the AC unit would run the shorted out relay would energize the trailer frame (via the ground wire) with 110V AC. This caused anyone who was touching a metal part of the trailer and the ground (earth) at the same time to get electrocuted.

I've fixed it, notified Cherokee and am now wondering if I should take this to the next step.

What do ya think?

I've never sued or been the type, but this is ridiculous. I hate to think of the torture our dog and kids went through until we finally found the problem. And thank GOD it wasn't one of the little ones that got it BAD like my wife did. That could have killed them or done serious damage to their little bodies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>////////// You have more problems,the Ground fault in the kitchen or bath should have broken the power to the AC and other outlets in line . Also the breakers .The hook up at the outside is most likely the cause of the fault. Skipper entry level over fifty years.
__________________
99 DCTD 3500 PAC-Brake Line x 5spd guages SW- EGT,Boost,FP
95 American Star 5th w/ 1 slide.
skipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2005, 12:34 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Todd T's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
Update: they got the trailer fixed and there were two problems. first the ground wire at the trailer shore power plug was pulled from its socket upon installation into the side of the trailer. secondly they estimate from shorting out of the relay it took out the main 30 amp breaker AND the 20 side of the same breaker causing them to not work properly.

In short this trailer was an accident waiting to happen (and it did). I'm not sure if i'm happy it shocked my wife as opposed to burning to the ground.

this was the second time this trailer has been in for shorting out. the first time if you recall (another thread i started) the inverter/charger smoked when we had opened the trailer and turned the air on for a guest to use it.

they replaced the entire PDC (fuse box) and inverter/charger, replaced the "brain box" for the A/C unit and have corrected the open ground fault at the shore power plug.

on the plus side we got our ramp room replaced, the wirring corrected and used the trailer this past weekend and all was quiet and things are good again!

our little nephew was with us again this past weekend and he was very hesitant to climb the steps and open the door. we kept having to assure him it wouldnt shock him anymore.
__________________
06' Summit White Silverado 2500HD, CC, SB, 4WD, LBZ Dura/Alli

Todd T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2005, 04:49 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: orange county, CA
Posts: 465
GFCI's only trip when wires cross, as well as breakers, but breakers take a great deal more current. It sounds like the hot leg and the ground were miss wired, causing the current to bypass the A/C and charge the frame. Your lucky you found the problem and no body was hurt seriously (taken to the hosptial). Getting shocked sucks, I know, I get shocked about once a week. They say 110 volt wont kill you, but ask your wife what she thinks about that now.
I wouldn't get crazy with a lawyer just yet, but you should let whom ever your going to deal with that you have thought about going that route, and have them go up and down the stairs a few times with the A/C going. They should fix it without any guff, I don't know what sueing them would get you though. I can imagine it would cost a small fortune and gobbs of time. Plus, trying to get satisfaction out of this would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turip. Good Luck though, keep us posted

Rod
__________________
02 F250 SD Diesel 4x4, 6.5 lift, Banks ex, K&N, Edge progrmr

WW LE3505
melon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2005, 08:35 AM   #13
Member
 
robertsonthego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Temecula, Ca USA
Posts: 71
Glad to hear you got everything fixed without major injury. John
__________________

__________________
2003 Dodge Crew Cab, 4X4, Ca. Cummins, Limited slip, 3.73, 48re, T-Rex nerf bars, Rhino Liner, B&W Turnover Ball, B&W Companion, Prodigy. 2005 Wildcat 29BHBP, 1987 HR Aluma-Lite XL 35', 1500W inverter, 3 solar panels, 3 furnaces, 4 Golf Cart Batteri
robertsonthego is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Good Lawyer Story HuBee RV'ing Humor & Crazy but True Stories 3 09-15-2008 02:43 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.