Improve destination pull

[Kjoy457]

I've have had a 29 KSRE Newmar which is 32 foot overall with a Goss weight of 14000 lb and a morryde rubber pin box and it pulls like a dream. Just purchased a Winnebago destination 36 RL 15500 lb gross with a trail ride air bag shock absorber pin. I'm getting lots of chucking and stiff neck after 2 and 1/2 hours I can pull the Newmar for 500 miles and feel fresh.
has anyone improved this unit by changing to the moryde rubber pin or other changes.
I am pulling with a 2017 diesel f 350.
Thanks!

[Old-Biscuit]

How much is YOUR PIN Weight on Winnegbago compared to Newmar?


How much air pressure are you running in bladder on Trailair?


IS the 2017 F350 a SRW or DRW?

[consolenut]

I think its a matter of the Newmar toting more pin weight. The Newmar 5th wheels run heavy on the pin thus taming the truck a little. The Winnie doesn't have the pin weight and your bouncing and chucking.

[Dropthejacks]

Thought the Destination model RVs were meant to be taken somewhere and set up, not pulling repeatedly up and down the highway?

[CecilD]

Unfortunately, fifth wheel towing dynamics differ by brand. Usually, the longer heavier trailers chuck less. As a trailer rolls over bumps, it rotates around an axis parallel to the axles. Because of the high hitch of a fifth wheel, the pin is pushing down (bouncing forces) and forward (chucking forces) at the same time.

If you look at a side view of you air bag pin box, you can visualize it compressing. Because of the lower rear hinge design, the pin box is actually pushing forward when it is compressed. This pin box makes chucking worse! It does soften bouncing forces though unless your air pressure is so high as to make it ineffective.

A MORryde pin box moves in the fore/aft direction and deals with chucking forces. But, it has little give relative to bouncing forces. When used in combination with a solid hitch, It will stymie the bouncing forces and at the same time reduce the chucking forces. When in this mode, all of the trailer generated forces are sent back to the frame welds.

If you want the best of all worlds and a comfortable tow, get a Trailer Saver TS3 air hitch with a standard pin box. Because of the high hinge design, the hitch head retracts when compressed. This creates an orchestrated event that dissipates both chucking and bouncing forces at the same time. As your trailer is pushing forward, the hitch is retracting rearward (visualize it from the side). It works.

Many will come on here and tell you chucking is merely noise from a loose hitch to pin connection. Me, you, and others that have experienced severe chucking know better.

[Kjoy457]

Originally Posted by consolenut

I think its a matter of the Newmar toting more pin weight. The Newmar 5th wheels run heavy on the pin thus taming the truck a little. The Winnie doesn't have the pin weight and your bouncing and chucking.

Actually the opposite is true. The newmar has 2100lbs and the Winnie is 2800# on the pin. Also the 6' of length difference is all ahead of the front of the axle and surprisingly the length behind the axles are the same. This tow was done with the unit empty so most personal items and basement storage would be adding weight on the pin.
The truck is a dually crew cab long bed. The air was to the sticker on the shock per the owners manual.
Thanks Keith

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Kjoy457

Actually the opposite is true. The newmar has 2100lbs and the Winnie is 2800# on the pin. Also the 6' of length difference is all ahead of the front of the axle and surprisingly the length behind the axles are the same. This tow was done with the unit empty so most personal items and basement storage would be adding weight on the pin.
The truck is a dually crew cab long bed. The air was to the sticker on the shock per the owners manual.
Thanks Keith

Newmar 2100# pin is DRY Pin....but you towed it around loaded up for camping
Wet pin was probably closer to 3000#+



Winnebago 2800# is also DRY pin and that is how you towed it.......lighter pin
Load that trailer up
WET Pin 3300#-3400# and THEN see how that Trailair works.

[Kjoy457]

Originally Posted by CecilD

Unfortunately, fifth wheel towing dynamics differ by brand. Usually, the longer heavier trailers chuck less. As a trailer rolls over bumps, it rotates around an axis parallel to the axles. Because of the high hitch of a fifth wheel, the pin is pushing down (bouncing forces) and forward (chucking forces) at the same time.

If you look at a side view of you air bag pin box, you can visualize it compressing. Because of the lower rear hinge design, the pin box is actually pushing forward when it is compressed. This pin box makes chucking worse! It does soften bouncing forces though unless your air pressure is so high as to make it ineffective.

A MORryde pin box moves in the fore/aft direction and deals with chucking forces. But, it has little give relative to bouncing forces. When used in combination with a solid hitch, It will stymie the bouncing forces and at the same time reduce the chucking forces. When in this mode, all of the trailer generated forces are sent back to the frame welds.

If you want the best of all worlds and a comfortable tow, get a Trailer Saver TS3 air hitch with a standard pin box. Because of the high hinge design, the hitch head retracts when compressed. This creates an orchestrated event that dissipates both chucking and bouncing forces at the same time. As your trailer is pushing forward, the hitch is retracting rearward (visualize it from the side). It works.

Many will come on here and tell you chucking is merely noise from a loose hitch to pin connection. Me, you, and others that have experienced severe chucking know better.

I agree with your description of the Shock aiir bag not affecting the chucking that I am experiencing.
If I went to the Moryde system can't I expect the truck suspension to absorb the bounce. My newmar was weighed with options and came in at 12,400 before personal gear and I had no bouncing or chucking issues.
I am guessing that I am 1000# more weight with the Winnie and did not expect to experience a significant difference.
What do you make of the length behind the axles being the same but 6' more in front of the axle on the Winnie. I would think that would put too much weight on the pin as the unit gets loaded.not much personal gear would be behind the axle.
Thanks

[CecilD]

Originally Posted by Kjoy457

I agree with your description of the Shock aiir bag not affecting the chucking that I am experiencing.
If I went to the Moryde system can't I expect the truck suspension to absorb the bounce. My newmar was weighed with options and came in at 12,400 before personal gear and I had no bouncing or chucking issues.
I am guessing that I am 1000# more weight with the Winnie and did not expect to experience a significant difference.
What do you make of the length behind the axles being the same but 6' more in front of the axle on the Winnie. I would think that would put too much weight on the pin as the unit gets loaded.not much personal gear would be behind the axle.
Thanks

I'm assuming the trailer manufacturer positioned the axles to balance the weight properly. Kind of moot as you most likely will not be repositioning them. It could be the Winnebago rotates easier than the Newmar. Reasons could be centralized mass instead of on the ends of the trailer or the Newmar has better axle equalization or trailer shocks. These will help in keeping the trailer from rotating.

Your truck's suspension will absorb the shock relative to the road but only for bouncing forces. Your fifth wheel is pushing and pulling. That is why you are bouncing off the seat-backs. Think about it; the kingpin is fastened securely to your rigid hitch, which is solidly fastened to the frame of your truck, which is bolted to your cab, which is bolted to your seats. No where does your trucks suspension come into play when dealing with chucking. This is why changing shocks or tire inflation seldom helps with chucking.

There is one caveat. Say you add air bags, and make the trucks suspension stiff and unforgiving. This will keep the trailer from rotating and stop both the trailer generated bouncing and chucking forces reaching your seat. However, you now have the truck's generated bouncing forces going right to your seat and headed to your trailer. The trailer will still be generating energy, the truck will be transferring energy. Where is going to go? Hello frame flex and weld damage. The energy has to be dissipated somewhere. An air hitch uses the energy to compress air in the bags and shocks, which converts it into heat, and radiates into the atmosphere. That's why they call the hitch a Trailer Saver, continual frame flex is incrementally tearing up the rest of the unit.

[LadyDog]

Originally Posted by Kjoy457

I've have had a 29 KSRE Newmar which is 32 foot overall with a Goss weight of 14000 lb and a morryde rubber pin box and it pulls like a dream. Just purchased a Winnebago destination 36 RL 15500 lb gross with a trail ride air bag shock absorber pin. I'm getting lots of chucking and stiff neck after 2 and 1/2 hours I can pull the Newmar for 500 miles and feel fresh.
has anyone improved this unit by changing to the moryde rubber pin or other changes.
I am pulling with a 2017 diesel f 350.
Thanks!

I own a 2016 Winnebago 36RL being towed by a 2017 F350 drw 4X4. The trailer has the Trailaire pin box which I inflate to the inflation line when hooked up. I do have the 5500 Onan generator in the trailer. When loaded the pin weight is basically 4,000lbs. The rear truck tires are inflated to 65psi and the front tires to 70psi. There is no chucking at all and is a real nice ride. I have never towed the trailer empty for any distance, so don't know what the difference in chucking if any would be.


Like other posters have said, load the trailer and take it for a trip and see what it tows like.


My previous trailer had the moryde pin box with a pin weight of 3800lbs and I find that the Winnebago tows smoother.

[Kjoy457]

Wow that sounds like a lot of pin weight. I thought that when I looked at the truck specs it has a 4200 lb payload that includes passengers personal gear and fuel so I would hope that I could keep the pin weight in the 3200 lb range so I'm not exceeding the trucks payload rating.
Thanks Keith

[LadyDog]

My truck is a 2017 F350 crew cab long box dually 4X4 Lariat and has a payload of 5,329lbs so I'm still under all weight specs as I weighed on a scale.

[Kjoy457]

Thanks so much for this information I must have looked at the wrong line in the Ford specs and had the payload numbers wrong. My email is kjoy457@gmail.. I would love to talk with you about your experience with the destination things to do things not to do as this is a new unit to me and still taking baby steps in my knowledge of this unit. If you send me your email address I will email you my personal phone number and you can call at your convenience.
Thanks! Keith