Main breaker replacement Progressive Dynamics Power Center

[Punks385RLS]

I am considering the addition of a third AC unit in my rig. It was offered from the factory but my coach only came with 2 AC units. My first dilemma is that I have no open breaker slots in my Progressive Dynamics PD4590 Power Center. I may be able to solve this issue by replacing the main breaker which is a Siemens Q250 double pole 50 amp breaker with a Siemens Q22050CT which is a 50 amp double pole with two 20 amp single pole breakers on either side. Because the Q22050CT consists of 1/2" inch breakers is should physically fit into the same location as the Q250 which are 1" breakers.


Has anyone tried this breaker in their Progressive Dynamics Power Center? I contacted PD and they indicated that they had not heard of the Q22050CT breaker and could not give me an answer if it would fit although their literature indicates ITE/Siemens QP/OT breakers are compatible.

[clifford j]

I think that's pretty slick. My concern is the third A/C unit is 240 volts and any circuit breaker protection must have bridged toggles so if a fault occurs both handles will trip and kill both hot feed conductors. It seems that the dual breakers aside the 50 amp center breakers cannot be bridged.

CLIFFORD

[iamblum]

If they say Siemens will be acceptable in their equiptment then that breaker should work just fine. And the 50 amp 2 pole breaker is handle tied. So should be no issue

[1960C182]

Originally Posted by clifford j

I think that's pretty slick. My concern is the third A/C unit is 240 volts and any circuit breaker protection must have bridged toggles so if a fault occurs both handles will trip and kill both hot feed conductors. It seems that the dual breakers aside the 50 amp center breakers cannot be bridged.

CLIFFORD

If the OP sticks to a 15K BTU or less aren't they all 110V ? I'm more concerned about wire size & total current draw if all 3 running & maybe water heater on in electric mode also.
Just a thought, if AC 110 you will want to hook it on the 20 amp side of the bus as most rv 50 amp set up as split bus, 30 amp & 20amp side.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by 1960C182

If the OP sticks to a 15K BTU or less aren't they all 110V ? I'm more concerned about wire size & total current draw if all 3 running & maybe water heater on in electric mode also.
Just a thought, if AC 110 you will want to hook it on the 20 amp side of the bus as most rv 50 amp set up as split bus, 30 amp & 20amp side.

50 amp service is 240 volts, split 50 amps@120 volts per side.

[iamblum]

[emoji115]well said

[clifford j]

X2

clifford

[cavie]

Originally Posted by clifford j

I think that's pretty slick. My concern is the third A/C unit is 240 volts and any circuit breaker protection must have bridged toggles so if a fault occurs both handles will trip and kill both hot feed conductors. It seems that the dual breakers aside the 50 amp center breakers cannot be bridged.

CLIFFORD

Although there is 240 volts at the main breaker, there is nothing in the RV that uses 240 volts. A/C's are 120 volts. FYI, if you look at that breaker you will see that both the 50's and the 20's are bridged. If that breaker can be installed,( I don't think it can. NEC rules apply here. There should be blocking tabs) then the 20 amp bridges will need to be removed so you can have two separate circuits.

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by clifford j

I think that's pretty slick. My concern is the third A/C unit is 240 volts and any circuit breaker protection must have bridged toggles so if a fault occurs both handles will trip and kill both hot feed conductors. It seems that the dual breakers aside the 50 amp center breakers cannot be bridged.

CLIFFORD

There are quadplex versions that have both the inner pair and the outer pair connected via handle tie.

It says 120V on the Amazon site, but the handle-tied units, both triplex and quadplex, are 120/240V rated, according to the Siemens data sheet.

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-Q2205.../dp/B0052MBWD0

I'm not recommending that unit in particular. Just showing that quadplex versions are available, in all sizes.

As to backfeeding it as a main breaker, it's supposed to have a mechanical hold-down device, which may be able to be recycled from the existing 2-pole back-fed breaker.


Edit: cavie got there too fast. And as he said, if 120V is required for the A/C units, then breakers are available in triplex version, with only the middle pair handle tied. But I don't know if it's NEC compliant to backfeed a tri- or quadplex to serve as a main. Are there no other full-sized breakers that could be swapped for tandems or quads, especially low current circuits (to minimize heat in the breakers)? Or maybe install a separate small box with 50A 2-pole breaker to act as the main, and rededicate the panel to loads only.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by 1960C182

If the OP sticks to a 15K BTU or less aren't they all 110V ? I'm more concerned about wire size & total current draw if all 3 running & maybe water heater on in electric mode also.
Just a thought, if AC 110 you will want to hook it on the 20 amp side of the bus as most rv 50 amp set up as split bus, 30 amp & 20amp side.

All 50 amp panels are 50 amp split buss. 50 amps per side. 240 volts at the main. Two 120 volt legs. 240 volt not accessible. I wish DIY's would stop giving out electric advice.

[iamblum]

I have not tried those breakers in a pd power center. I have used those breakers and others like them in many panels throughout the years. All that breaker does is add 2 more 20 amp circuit breakers. I do believe they make the same version except it wouldnt have the 2 20 amp breakers tied together. But even if they dont , as said before you would need to remove the handle tie between the 20 amp circuit breakers. I'm not understanding where the "backfeeding" comment is coming from (pictures are hard to see on my phone). If there is a 50 amp breaker in there all ready and it's a Siemens q series, then it should be no issue to replace it with another Siemens snap in breaker

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by iamblum

I have not tried those breakers in a pd power center. I have used those breakers and others like them in many panels throughout the years. All that breaker does is add 2 more 20 amp circuit breakers. I do believe they make the same version except it wouldnt have the 2 20 amp breakers tied together. But even if they dont , as said before you would need to remove the handle tie between the 20 amp circuit breakers. I'm not understanding where the "backfeeding" comment is coming from (pictures are hard to see on my phone). If there is a 50 amp breaker in there all ready and it's a Siemens q series, then it should be no issue to replace it with another Siemens snap in breaker

The backfeeding relates to the direction of current flow. Not all breakers can be reverse-fed

Main breakers flow current from incoming cables to the bus bars.
Standard breakers flow current from the bus bar to the outgoing cables.

[iamblum]

I very well could be wrong, but my understanding is a breaker or any other type of " dumb" switch does not care what side it is fed from. Amps are Amos, vets are volts. Transformers and breakers dont care where they get their voltage from. Should feed either way, but my issue is that there is a 2 pole 50 in place already so if he was to replace that with a 50 amp specialty breaker (with e 2 20s, takes up the same space) then nothing has changed other than adding the 2 20 amp breakers. What am I missing? Not trying to be rude, sarcastic or otherwise[emoji106]

[1960C182]

Originally Posted by cavie

All 50 amp panels are 50 amp split buss. 50 amps per side. 240 volts at the main. Two 120 volt legs. 240 volt not accessible. I wish DIY's would stop giving out electric advice.

My 50amp has more spaces on one side than the other. will be out there & will see what brand.
Nothing in my 5er uses 240 .