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Old 11-05-2013, 04:04 PM   #57
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It is SUPPOSED to pull from the tank. You may have the pump set to pull from a short hose that you can stick into a jug of antifreeze for winterizing.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:58 PM   #58
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Also, with such poor pressure, do you have a water filter that might be clogged and reducing flow? Your water pump should solve the problem and I'd think you surely could take a shower on a full water tank and not have to run outside.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:51 PM   #59
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I tried that, however the water pressure coming in was almost a trickle, the water pump had nothing to work with.

I was thinking about the tank Idea, would be nice If I could have the city water connected with an Internal triple switching mechanism; to turn it off, switch to filling the tank, and connect to plumbing.

I don't know how long the tank would last, and going outside to bring the hose around to the refilling hole while covered in soap and a towel, cause the shower cut off mid rinse, would not be fun.
Dry,
The pump in the Outlaw 3611 is located right above the tank (in the kitchen cabinet) and draws only from the tank...unless the winterizing valve has been turned (like mentioned above). If the valve is open to the winterizing hose, then the pump will always suck air, with or without city water.
The water tank should be 71gal....plenty of water for a shower. But, the pump is only a 50psi unit so it will only mix a portion of the water going into a shower if you are also using city water.

Adding a triple valve for city water is very doable. The original inlet can be accessed behind the blank in the cabinet under the bathroom sink (drivers side). You could add the valve there or in the service bin, right below there. The only hard part would be running the PEX line across the RV to the passenger side tank.

I have not done this Mod because I just keep 2 lengths of white water hose and a "Y" splitter in the RV to use at campgrounds with on-spot water. The extra hose is usually run under the RV to the passenger side to top-off the on-board tank, or fill a dog water bowl, or rinse dirty stuff...etc.

Best luck
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:58 PM   #60
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Also, with such poor pressure, do you have a water filter that might be clogged and reducing flow? Your water pump should solve the problem and I'd think you surely could take a shower on a full water tank and not have to run outside.
Your right, I just meant the second shower, or third?
How often would I have to refill it?

I did notice the water pressure is much stronger at the bathroom faucet that the shower. I figured that was by design. When I had the shower out I saw the hot and cold lines were very thin. Plus the line to the shower head, looks like a limiter.

I don't know I could be completely wrong, I am new to this world, and trying to learn. Thanks for your help.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #61
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Dry,
The pump in the Outlaw 3611 is located right above the tank (in the kitchen cabinet) and draws only from the tank...unless the winterizing valve has been turned (like mentioned above). If the valve is open to the winterizing hose, then the pump will always suck air, with or without city water.
The water tank should be 71gal....plenty of water for a shower. But, the pump is only a 50psi unit so it will only mix a portion of the water going into a shower if you are also using city water.

Adding a triple valve for city water is very doable. The original inlet can be accessed behind the blank in the cabinet under the bathroom sink (drivers side). You could add the valve there or in the service bin, right below there. The only hard part would be running the PEX line across the RV to the passenger side tank.

I have not done this Mod because I just keep 2 lengths of white water hose and a "Y" splitter in the RV to use at campgrounds with on-spot water. The extra hose is usually run under the RV to the passenger side to top-off the on-board tank, or fill a dog water bowl, or rinse dirty stuff...etc.

Best luck

I have water lines going to the other side already for the washing machine, perhaps I could rig a city cut off on the driver side, and a separate valve on the passenger side from the washer lines to do the tank refiling.

But 50 psi, maybe I could upgrade that to a more powerful one.
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:16 AM   #62
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Having serviced and installed tankless water heaters for decades there are a few things that people should understand. The vendors of tankless water heaters are always spouting off about how storage tank type heaters are heating water 24/7-in fact they only heat water when it cools off enough and down into the "window" of reheat- with the new foam insulation the standby heat loss is typically less than 1%. To instal a tankless you should realize there are minimum flow rates below which the heater will not operate-this typically happens when you wash your hands for instance-so you then have to increase flow by opening your faucet more. There have been some amusing problems with flow rates as well for some HD shower users. Someone told them they'll have endless hot water so they stand in the shower for endless times-so much for economy. The other problem may be what happens to water temperature when more than one fixture is used-normally the tankless will do one of two things-it will maintain the temperature but decrease the flow rate or the less sophisticated ones will simply lower the supplied hot water temperature. Some of the electric controls on tankless heaters are fairly sophisticated and beyond the average DIYer. The tankless heaters do not like hard water-pretty much all of them will say somewhere in the fine print, something to this effect-which means acid flushing once a year or so-depending on use etc. Not to say storage heaters don't have problems, but for the most part they are pretty trouble free and one would be hard pressed to provide any measurable saving of purchasing and installing and servicing a tankless over a 5 year period.
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:27 AM   #63
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Thank you POPPASMURF. I think you are spot on! Much of the savings by these heaters seems to be a comparison of fuel use while they are being used, not over long time periods. The other issues of flow rate and storage losses are also illuminating. Thanks!
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:00 PM   #64
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Having serviced and installed tankless water heaters for decades there are a few things that people should understand. The vendors of tankless water heaters are always spouting off about how storage tank type heaters are heating water 24/7-in fact they only heat water when it cools off enough and down into the "window" of reheat- with the new foam insulation the standby heat loss is typically less than 1%. To instal a tankless you should realize there are minimum flow rates below which the heater will not operate-this typically happens when you wash your hands for instance-so you then have to increase flow by opening your faucet more. There have been some amusing problems with flow rates as well for some HD shower users. Someone told them they'll have endless hot water so they stand in the shower for endless times-so much for economy. The other problem may be what happens to water temperature when more than one fixture is used-normally the tankless will do one of two things-it will maintain the temperature but decrease the flow rate or the less sophisticated ones will simply lower the supplied hot water temperature. Some of the electric controls on tankless heaters are fairly sophisticated and beyond the average DIYer. The tankless heaters do not like hard water-pretty much all of them will say somewhere in the fine print, something to this effect-which means acid flushing once a year or so-depending on use etc. Not to say storage heaters don't have problems, but for the most part they are pretty trouble free and one would be hard pressed to provide any measurable saving of purchasing and installing and servicing a tankless over a 5 year period.

Thank you for your advice, I now know something I didn't know before, and it will give me something to think about... I don't have my 5er yet, (3 mor e weeks!) and it is not the first one I mentioned, it was sold) this one is a few years newer, and may have a perfectly good water heater, hoping it is dual power but if it ever needs replacing I may look at the electric / gas heater (assuming there is such a creature) and again at the tankless, it may have improved in a few years
All things considered I don't think I will have to be replacing anything for awhile yet ...

BTW if one did go tankless would a water filter before the input to the tankless help with the crystalization? also would it be a good thing to install with the reg. tank?

If this unit does not have a filter I will get one installed... as an ' installer'of 'all things RV' is there one you might recommend over another?
Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

If anyone has done this filter thing please feel free to comment on your experiences... I can only afford to do this once!
Thanks for any help!
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #65
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A regular filter will do little to remove hard water minerals. A tank heater can be flushed with a wand and soaked in white vinegar to remove scaling. A 120 v heating element is available to add on to a gas water heater. Amazon.com: Camco 11673 RV Hot Water Hybrid Heat - 6 gallon: Automotive
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:38 PM   #66
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Having serviced and installed tankless water heaters for decades there are a few things that people should understand..... Not to say storage heaters don't have problems, but for the most part they are pretty trouble free and one would be hard pressed to provide any measurable saving of purchasing and installing and servicing a tankless over a 5 year period.
Interesting insight. The flow issue would be caused by having the wrong size tankless for the house. Our unit has never cut flow or lost temperature due to demand.

And as far as measurable savings, our unit paid for itself within the first few years...but that is based on our use and local utility prices.

RV tankless units have 1.5 to 2.0 gallon per minute ratings from my research, and have 2-3 gas burn rates, so I expect that it would function in a similar fashion to the whole house units...just on a RV scale.

I plan to upgrade when my old unit starts to have issues, making the tankless only about 30-50% more in cost, but the ability to have a "real shower" might make us think about an early change...the on-off-on water rationing is fine when boondocking, but when at a campground there's no reason to have to deal with that.

It's all about what you need and want...if I was fulltiming, the change would have already been made.

Safe travels
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:06 AM   #67
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Well, I can take a 10 minute shower without an issue with our Suburban. I don't need more than that, and if I turn on gas as well as electric it is back to temp in around 10-15 minutes, or less....so no problem with multiple showers the same morning.

I'm all for advanced technology "stuff", but I've seen no reason to go to a tankless system. It seems to me that ALL of them need way more tweeking than a simple tank system.

Different people have different needs, of course. But keeping things simple when possible has some beauty, in my mind at least.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:01 PM   #68
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Does anyone here have an opinion on hot water on demand heaters?

I know they are made for RVs and run from propane, I am seriously thinking to remove the tank and install one of these, they work extremely well in houses!

Penny for your thoughts .... oops that will have to be free, we don't use pennies anymore

Thanks in advance
Compared to a tank heater the RV550 on demand water heater is 40%+ more efficient at making hot water. It can take 35 degree incoming water
and heat it to 120 degrees. When the faucet is turned off the heater shuts down and draws .1 amp of 12 volt power and only uses 2+ amps of 12 volt power while making hot water. It supplies a great creature comfort while RVing, unlimited hot water and no wait between use because it does not have a tank. Remember, tank heaters waste a lot of energy and limits your hot water usage.

Hot Water
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:50 PM   #69
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Compared to a tank heater the RV550 on demand water heater is 40%+ more efficient at making hot water. It can take 35 degree incoming water
and heat it to 120 degrees. When the faucet is turned off the heater shuts down and draws .1 amp of 12 volt power and only uses 2+ amps of 12 volt power while making hot water. It supplies a great creature comfort while RVing, unlimited hot water and no wait between use because it does not have a tank. Remember, tank heaters waste a lot of energy and limits your hot water usage.

Hot Water
Where is this info coming from?
A tank WH takes 35*F water and takes it to 140*F. A tank WH uses very little 12V power on standby, if any. Same when running. Atwood gas only has a 2A fuse.
What is the efficiency of a tank WH? I don't see where it "wastes" energy.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #70
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Just like with any marketing, anything and everything is used to 'sell' the idea...

we've had many with tanked and only this last one had the on demand and honestly the 'cost' / 'saving's / etc... were of little consideration...

the fact that we had hot water until the fresh water ran out or grey tanks filled up was the real benefit to us

so each person can use their own reasons for having or not having it...
if you want it - get it,
if not - don't
either way I won't tell you what you HAVE to buy or be fined for it
nor will I argue about the drawbacks of each method... good luck !

(fyi - our newest is now a 12 gal elec or gas heated tank just because it was offered in the rv momma picked out !)
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