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Old 07-23-2016, 11:31 AM   #1
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Pin Box Comparison

I originally posted this question in the Toy Hauler forum, but I think maybe posting it here might be a little more helpful (not to say the responders weren't helpful, they were)...but I'd like more opinions, if possible.
Here it is:

We have a new 5th Wheel Toy hauler, 43' 9". 2017 Dutchmen Voltage 4105.
Since we are new to hauling 5th wheels, I would like to know if anyone out there has actually COMPARED the different pin boxes.

I can read all sorts of comments about, this is better, or that is better, and that they've used this brand and never had troubles.

But that doesn't actually give a true comparison...unless they have used, for example the Demco and now use the MorRyde pin box. THEN give a true comparison.

Our problem is that of chucking:

The ones that we are considering are the Demco, MorRyde, and the Air Ride systems. We have an F350 Dually Long bed pulling the trailer. We have a Demco 21K as the receiver. Any help or comments on this matter would be of great assistance.
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Old 07-23-2016, 03:12 PM   #2
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I post this in another thread on a similar subject check out the link below.


When I was in the market looking for improvement on a pin box for my second fiver I looked at all three after market pin boxes. Such as the Demco Glide, Mor Ryde and the TrailAir. In my research I did a free body diagram with the forces involved to figure out which one would work for me. I decided that the Trail Air Pin box would suit my needs on my Cougar and on my Cedar Creek.


Now TrailAir has provided another feature for some of their pin boxes now called Trailair Tri Glide Pin Box. See attached link this might provide the pin box that you would like.Ultra-Fab Products, Inc.| - Trailair Pin Box - Model L07 TRI-GLIDE
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Old 07-23-2016, 04:08 PM   #3
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I have a Demco glide ride and have a B&W companion. No chucking and we get a good ride. YMMV


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Old 07-23-2016, 05:15 PM   #4
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Chucking.........

Low pin weight..have you got to set of scales and gotten weighed?
Trailer Nose High or even nose low........is trailer level when connected to truck?

Is hitch 'tight' in bed rails.....loose/sloppy connection to bed rails will allow hitch to rock?
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:24 PM   #5
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What did you mean by a "free body diagram"? Where can I go to take a peek at your results...or the 'diagram'.


We're racking our brains and still can't figure out what to do.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:02 PM   #6
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It can get pretty complex... got math?

Hiya,

Free body diagrams, often abbreviated "fbd" are a tool for solving problems with multiple forces acting on a single body. The methods developed here can also be used for the summation of force fields. The purpose of a free body diagram is to reduce the complexity of situation for easy analysis. The diagram is used as a starting point to develop a mathematical model of the forces acting on an object.
Just examples.
Perhaps you get the idea.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:08 PM   #7
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Welcome nice looking coach.
Keep doing your research.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could test drive "Pin boxes" like we do TV's and Trailers?
I’d doubt we can even get two opinions on what “chucking” really is let alone how to minimize it?
Every truck & trailer combination is different. From the trucks physical capabilities to the trailers mass / weight, suspension types, and geometry. As is noted, there are several types of forces that interact in these moving connections. Often these axis are confused, even mystified. None the less they combine and can make in some situations for an uncomfortable seat of the pants experience. The fore & aft tug, "chucking" of similar masses at slightly varying velocities / trajectories is mostly misunderstood, and corrected by few. Bounding up and down on the suspensions jounce bumpers is another necessity of physics. Neither can be totally eliminated in all situations. Depending on road conditions and driver skills they can be reduced. A quality "connection" can help reduce what makes it to the seat and headrest. If the geometry and trajectory of the TV and that of the trailer are dis-similar generally the heavier (higher mass) of the two will prevail.
Not wishing too be a product fan-boy but let’s focus on manufacturers using complimentary mechanical attributes. As in building any high performance apparatus whether it be a race car, gaming PC, or an aircraft. The system isn’t always the sum of it’s combined components and their specifications. Sometimes there is a secret sauce that’s difficult to pin down. Synergy I think it’s called.
The Mor/Ryde style pin box and their I S geometry suspension components used as a system with our current TV have done more to tame undesirable towing characteristics than any other towing components I've used. I’m in my 60’s, drove professionally decades ago, I have jockeyed more contraptions, boats & trailers than I’d care to admit.
Currently we have a neighbor a couple pads down with a similar coach, TV, and they are sporting a Tri-Glide they seem pleased also. We’re both in the 30K, zone, but it’s doubtful we’ll ever hook up to each others rigs and test drive.
But alas who has the resources to purchase, install, and test different connection types and objectively compare them. How could you not endorse your own often costly expenditure? We’re all searching for the “secret sauce”.
FWIW: Thinking that whatever you tote in your asset hauler could play into this equation also, the way it's secured, sprung un-sprung, etc. That's moving mass on the other side of those trailer axles. Think of a teeter- totter.
Best of luck,
Happy motoring.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:16 PM   #8
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Good points above. While i was chasing the same thing, i came across a post where the auther indicated that many chucking causes were not just the hitch. Although the hitch transfers the jolts, an isolating hitch may just be masking some issues. My first step was to replace my suspension equalizer along with wet bolts with a dexter EZ flex equalizer, a road trip today was very satisfactory.
As Mnt indicated , weights, supension, hitch all play a part.
After I reread my post I'm not sure if I gave you any help at all.
Good luck.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcumminsw View Post
I post this in another thread on a similar subject check out the link below.


When I was in the market looking for improvement on a pin box for my second fiver I looked at all three after market pin boxes. Such as the Demco Glide, Mor Ryde and the TrailAir. In my research I did a free body diagram with the forces involved to figure out which one would work for me. I decided that the Trail Air Pin box would suit my needs on my Cougar and on my Cedar Creek.


Now TrailAir has provided another feature for some of their pin boxes now called Trailair Tri Glide Pin Box. See attached link this might provide the pin box that you would like.Ultra-Fab Products, Inc.| - Trailair Pin Box - Model L07 TRI-GLIDE
Just to bring everyone up to speed, the Tri-Glide has been discontinued due to failure of the system. My Tri-Glide had two of the three rollers fail leaving one roller to keep my trailer attached to my truck. We've been talking about other Voltage owners having Tri-Glide hitches fail over on the Dutchmenowners forum. I'm pretty sure the OP's new Voltage has the Tri-Glide and he needs to get rid of it before a tragedy occurs.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:18 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by V3600 View Post
Just to bring everyone up to speed, the Tri-Glide has been discontinued due to failure of the system. My Tri-Glide had two of the three rollers fail leaving one roller to keep my trailer attached to my truck. We've been talking about other Voltage owners having Tri-Glide hitches fail over on the Dutchmenowners forum. I'm pretty sure the OP's new Voltage has the Tri-Glide and he needs to get rid of it before a tragedy occurs.
Any pics of the damaged parts? I am on my second TriGlide with no issues. I do grease it about every 600-1,000 miles.
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:07 AM   #11
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One thing to consider. The attachment of the pin to the gooseneck frame, usually welds, id designed to handle vertical motion and fore-aft motion.

The addition of any air pin or MOR/ryde rubber pin extend the pin forward and adds a rotation force to the trailer pin. This adds a pulling force to the back of the pin attachment to the frame.

Not all trailers have a surplus of strength in pin attachments.

A better solution is an air hitch where the air bags are located in the firth-wheel unit on the truck. No extra stress on the trailer pin. Some hitches in addition to vertical damping have forth-aft damping or lateral damping.

For course an air hitch costs more and is seldom considered.
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Old 07-25-2016, 10:23 AM   #12
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I suppose there are few people who've gone from one type of box to another is the reason there are few opinions on which is best.
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:20 AM   #13
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When we had a Cedar Creek I put a Air Force 1 on it. Had an air bag and a shock absorber set up. Made a world of difference in the ride while towing.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:14 PM   #14
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Been towing with a Trailer Saver TS3 air ride hitch for 3 years now and love it. Our pin box is a Demco Glide. Great ride and very little chucking.

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